Comments on: My Life This Week: Baltimore and Pluto http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/ Independent Opinions on Comics of All Kinds Thu, 24 May 2012 14:45:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Mike Chary http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32689 Mike Chary Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:50:33 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32689 John: I wasn't suggesting anything so much as making a cheap joke. But from serious point of etymology has problems as the baseline of the conversation. I mean, if we want to get technical and use etymology as our guide, the Earth (not "Earth", from a history of language point of view but "the Earth") but anyway the Earth or Terra or Jord or Gaia or Irving or whatever you want to call it is not a planet at all. Why? What kind of idiot would say that? Well, the Greeks, because the wanderers, or planete, were so-called because they wandered across the sky. The Earth does not do that. The Earth sort of stays under your feet when you look up at the planets wandering around up there. Well, I hear you cry, we know better now. But if that's the case, how do we decide when to cut off the historical use of a word and kidnap it for ourselves? I would suggest that for the purposes of accusing the relevant people of sexism which I don't think Johanna was seriously doing, the cut-off point should probably be the current usages of the word, because, after all, they're on the front lines now. In any event, "what on EARTH could they have been thinking" seems a sufficiently oblique response in that regard and sufficiently glib that treating it as anything other than a cheap shot seems to be giving it an awful lot of credit. Yes, "Earth" began life as the word for dirt. Otoh, it did not take so very long for it to take on a female connotation when used by our culture to designate the planet. Ed:Neither. I was saying that taking a word back so far as to remove the current associations of the word can be rather tricky because you can end up a) going back before the word was used in the same way and b) deciding when to stop going backward can be rather arbitrary. For instance, from the point of view of etymology, there is no word for "male person" in English. "Man" is derived from a Sanskrit word meaning "human being." John: I wasn’t suggesting anything so much as making a cheap joke. But from serious point of etymology has problems as the baseline of the conversation.

I mean, if we want to get technical and use etymology as our guide, the Earth (not “Earth”, from a history of language point of view but “the Earth”) but anyway the Earth or Terra or Jord or Gaia or Irving or whatever you want to call it is not a planet at all. Why? What kind of idiot would say that? Well, the Greeks, because the wanderers, or planete, were so-called because they wandered across the sky. The Earth does not do that. The Earth sort of stays under your feet when you look up at the planets wandering around up there.

Well, I hear you cry, we know better now. But if that’s the case, how do we decide when to cut off the historical use of a word and kidnap it for ourselves?

I would suggest that for the purposes of accusing the relevant people of sexism which I don’t think Johanna was seriously doing, the cut-off point should probably be the current usages of the word, because, after all, they’re on the front lines now.

In any event, “what on EARTH could they have been thinking” seems a sufficiently oblique response in that regard and sufficiently glib that treating it as anything other than a cheap shot seems to be giving it an awful lot of credit.

Yes, “Earth” began life as the word for dirt. Otoh, it did not take so very long for it to take on a female connotation when used by our culture to designate the planet.

Ed:Neither. I was saying that taking a word back so far as to remove the current associations of the word can be rather tricky because you can end up a) going back before the word was used in the same way and b) deciding when to stop going backward can be rather arbitrary. For instance, from the point of view of etymology, there is no word for “male person” in English. “Man” is derived from a Sanskrit word meaning “human being.”

]]> By: Johanna http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32652 Johanna Fri, 25 Aug 2006 17:09:25 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32652 The things I learn from my blog... (Thanks for answering my question, Roger.) The things I learn from my blog… (Thanks for answering my question, Roger.)

]]> By: Ed Sizemore http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32651 Ed Sizemore Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:50:06 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32651 Mike, you could say the same for the gods Jupiter, Mercury, Diana, etc. I understand that before Roman society creatively acquired the Greek pantheon they had their own gods and goddess. Maybe I misunderstood your post. Were you using Venus as an example of how older Roman gods and goddesses were assumilated into the new Hellenism? Or do you think Venus is the only older god/goddess to be assimulated into the new pantheon and Roman society ditched most of the old gods and simply renamed the Greek gods and goddesses to form the mythology we are familiar with these days? Mike, you could say the same for the gods Jupiter, Mercury, Diana, etc. I understand that before Roman society creatively acquired the Greek pantheon they had their own gods and goddess. Maybe I misunderstood your post. Were you using Venus as an example of how older Roman gods and goddesses were assumilated into the new Hellenism? Or do you think Venus is the only older god/goddess to be assimulated into the new pantheon and Roman society ditched most of the old gods and simply renamed the Greek gods and goddesses to form the mythology we are familiar with these days?

]]> By: John http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32649 John Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:23:26 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32649 But Mike...you were suggesting Johanna's comment that Venus was the only planet named after a female was wrong. You were not suggesting that Venus being the only planet-name we associate with a female was wrong. That is where etymology kicks in. Earth was not named after a female. Earth was named after the word for soil, or ground. Venus was named after a female goddess. (As was Ceres, that point well-taken.) James - Ceres is possibly good evidence that this won't just be ignored. I had no idea Ceres was once considered a planet until a few days ago. And I even took a college Astronomy course. I suspect many had never even heard of Ceres. It might take a few years, but future students will learn the planets as the IAU declares them to be. If there are too many Dwarf planets for them to memorize, they will only remember the Classical planets. (There are a dozen planets being analyzed for Dwarf status in addition to the current 3) Pluto will return to being either a god, a dog or a cat. But Mike…you were suggesting Johanna’s comment that Venus was the only planet named after a female was wrong. You were not suggesting that Venus being the only planet-name we associate with a female was wrong.

That is where etymology kicks in. Earth was not named after a female. Earth was named after the word for soil, or ground. Venus was named after a female goddess. (As was Ceres, that point well-taken.)

James – Ceres is possibly good evidence that this won’t just be ignored. I had no idea Ceres was once considered a planet until a few days ago. And I even took a college Astronomy course. I suspect many had never even heard of Ceres.

It might take a few years, but future students will learn the planets as the IAU declares them to be. If there are too many Dwarf planets for them to memorize, they will only remember the Classical planets. (There are a dozen planets being analyzed for Dwarf status in addition to the current 3)

Pluto will return to being either a god, a dog or a cat.

]]> By: Mike Chary http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32648 Mike Chary Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:09:53 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32648 Venus <i>became</i> associatited with Aphrodite through the cultural domination of the Greeks, but prior to that association, she was a different goddess entirely. Who that deity was, however, is lost to the mists of time. Upon its discovery in 1800 or so, Ceres was originally classified as a planet, and named after Ceres one of the Olympian goddesses. When it was discovered that there were many, many such bodies in the asteroid belt, the category of asteroid was developed for them. Venus became associatited with Aphrodite through the cultural domination of the Greeks, but prior to that association, she was a different goddess entirely. Who that deity was, however, is lost to the mists of time.

Upon its discovery in 1800 or so, Ceres was originally classified as a planet, and named after Ceres one of the Olympian goddesses. When it was discovered that there were many, many such bodies in the asteroid belt, the category of asteroid was developed for them.

]]> By: Roger A http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32645 Roger A Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:13:29 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32645 Ceres is the Roman goddess of motherly love and plants - particularly grains. That's where we get the word cereal from. She's also the sister of Pluto. Ceres is the Roman goddess of motherly love and plants – particularly grains. That’s where we get the word cereal from.
She’s also the sister of Pluto.

]]> By: Johanna http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32644 Johanna Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:09:25 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32644 Thbbttt! You are not a good caster. Thbbttt! You are not a good caster.

]]> By: Ed Sizemore http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32642 Ed Sizemore Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:37:38 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32642 Johanna, Horoscope-wise your life up to this point has been wrong. ;-} You will have to go back to square one and try to figure who you are, what your destiny is, and what decisions to make tomorrow from square one. You will even have to rethink your compatiblity with KC, because his horoscope has radically changed too!! Guess you will have to cancel Baltimore Comic-Con and spend the weekend working this out. Johanna, Horoscope-wise your life up to this point has been wrong. ;-} You will have to go back to square one and try to figure who you are, what your destiny is, and what decisions to make tomorrow from square one. You will even have to rethink your compatiblity with KC, because his horoscope has radically changed too!! Guess you will have to cancel Baltimore Comic-Con and spend the weekend working this out.

]]> By: Johanna http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32639 Johanna Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:21:05 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32639 So who was Ceres before? (Mythology-wise, not astronomically.) And what does all this do to my horoscope? So who was Ceres before? (Mythology-wise, not astronomically.)

And what does all this do to my horoscope?

]]> By: Ed Sizemore http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32637 Ed Sizemore Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:24:03 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32637 Mike, Isn't Venus simply the Latin name for Aphrodite? So Venus would be the later name of the two. Mike, Isn’t Venus simply the Latin name for Aphrodite? So Venus would be the later name of the two.

]]> By: Mike Chary http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32635 Mike Chary Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:06:26 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32635 John, etymology is not defintion, after all. The reason the planets are called what they are called is that the ancients associated those particular pieces of sky with the theological figures so-named. I mean, in etymological terms the origins of the names are slightly irrelevant since whatever deity was originally named "Venus" has been lost to the mists of time as the Greek Aphrodite assumed the name. Beyond that, historically, our naming of the planets after Roman gods has taken on ludicrous terms, because while Uranus makes a sort of sense, Neptune and Pluto make none. Neptune wasn't in the sky. He was the sea. Pluto wasn't in the sky. He was the underworld. Actually, while Pluto and Xena were demoted, Ceres received a promotion, or rather a semi-promotion (Ceres was oriignally a planet and got reclassified.) That being, I would argue that Cthonic attitudes have always placed the Earth in a female aspect. Every major mythology of which I am aware that chose to personify the Earth from Gaia to Tiamat to Pachamama has chosen to do so as a female. John, etymology is not defintion, after all. The reason the planets are called what they are called is that the ancients associated those particular pieces of sky with the theological figures so-named.
I mean, in etymological terms the origins of the names are slightly irrelevant since whatever deity was originally named “Venus” has been lost to the mists of time as the Greek Aphrodite assumed the name. Beyond that, historically, our naming of the planets after Roman gods has taken on ludicrous terms, because while Uranus makes a sort of sense, Neptune and Pluto make none. Neptune wasn’t in the sky. He was the sea. Pluto wasn’t in the sky. He was the underworld.

Actually, while Pluto and Xena were demoted, Ceres received a promotion, or rather a semi-promotion (Ceres was oriignally a planet and got reclassified.)

That being, I would argue that Cthonic attitudes have always placed the Earth in a female aspect. Every major mythology of which I am aware that chose to personify the Earth from Gaia to Tiamat to Pachamama has chosen to do so as a female.

]]> By: James Schee http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32620 James Schee Fri, 25 Aug 2006 05:29:06 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32620 Gosh I must be spending way too much time at work as I had no idea what you were on about Pluto. Then I check my News headlines RSS feed and see. Hmm anyone think this will be one of those "Nerds may try to correct everyone with this info, but the common populace will completely ignore this until it finally gets ignored completely." bit of info? Plus calling something a dwarf planet, makes it not a planet? Fine then, I say all "stupid people" are no longer people. Sorry about your headache, and hope work gets better. BC is fun, even if there is a hurricane in the area when you go as I did.:) Yankees/Orioles make that big a dent? Gosh they play 30 something times a year, so odd. No football game this year though right? Gosh I must be spending way too much time at work as I had no idea what you were on about Pluto.

Then I check my News headlines RSS feed and see. Hmm anyone think this will be one of those “Nerds may try to correct everyone with this info, but the common populace will completely ignore this until it finally gets ignored completely.” bit of info?

Plus calling something a dwarf planet, makes it not a planet? Fine then, I say all “stupid people” are no longer people.

Sorry about your headache, and hope work gets better. BC is fun, even if there is a hurricane in the area when you go as I did.:) Yankees/Orioles make that big a dent? Gosh they play 30 something times a year, so odd. No football game this year though right?

]]> By: John http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32619 John Fri, 25 Aug 2006 05:19:43 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32619 Okay, I found some possibly good information: <a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=Earth&searchmode=none" rel="nofollow">Earth as a planet</a> dates back to c1400, and its Old English meaning was just "ground" or "soil" <a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=Mother+Earth&searchmode=none" rel="nofollow">Earth Mother</a> dates to 1904, and Mother Earth to 1586. So we were calling our planet Earth before we considered it our Mother. Okay, I found some possibly good information:

Earth as a planet dates back to c1400, and its Old English meaning was just “ground” or “soil”

Earth Mother dates to 1904, and Mother Earth to 1586.

So we were calling our planet Earth before we considered it our Mother.

]]> By: John http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32618 John Fri, 25 Aug 2006 05:07:52 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32618 But is that a modern cultural association...or the etymology? Defining Earth as feminine because of Mother Earth could be like defining Pluto as canine because of Walt Disney. In the brief internet search I made, none of the sources that went into the Germanic etymology of the word went into what it meant to "them". But is that a modern cultural association…or the etymology?

Defining Earth as feminine because of Mother Earth could be like defining Pluto as canine because of Walt Disney.

In the brief internet search I made, none of the sources that went into the Germanic etymology of the word went into what it meant to “them”.

]]> By: Mike Chary http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32614 Mike Chary Fri, 25 Aug 2006 02:20:41 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32614 John, the phrase "Mother Earth" not ringing any bells with you? John, the phrase “Mother Earth” not ringing any bells with you?

]]> By: John http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32611 John Fri, 25 Aug 2006 00:50:30 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32611 Terra was a Roman goddess, but I can't find anything online that specifically says the word, "Earth," is derived from any particular legendary being male or female. So it depends if you prefer the Germanic word that most people use, or the Latin word that is used mostly in science fiction. Finally we have a set definition which doesn't depend on size. At one time, there was a 3000 mile minimum for diameter, which was only due to Mercury being 3032 miles in diameter. They dropped the minimum for Pluto, but have finally realized they needed something more definitive to go by. My Very Educated Mother Just Served Us Nectarines Dwarf Children Prefer Xylophones (The latter might get a little longer, though, as I hear there are about a dozen candidates for Dwarf status being analyzed.) And, no. Pluto is not a dog. Pluto is a <a href="http://www.poedecoder.com/essays/blackcat/" rel="nofollow">cat</a>. Terra was a Roman goddess, but I can’t find anything online that specifically says the word, “Earth,” is derived from any particular legendary being male or female. So it depends if you prefer the Germanic word that most people use, or the Latin word that is used mostly in science fiction.

Finally we have a set definition which doesn’t depend on size. At one time, there was a 3000 mile minimum for diameter, which was only due to Mercury being 3032 miles in diameter. They dropped the minimum for Pluto, but have finally realized they needed something more definitive to go by.

My Very Educated Mother Just Served Us Nectarines
Dwarf Children Prefer Xylophones

(The latter might get a little longer, though, as I hear there are about a dozen candidates for Dwarf status being analyzed.)

And, no. Pluto is not a dog. Pluto is a cat.

]]> By: Johanna http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32609 Johanna Fri, 25 Aug 2006 00:28:21 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32609 Lisa, hope to see you there! Roger, that was KC's comparison, with the dinosaurs! The only dino names I know are Sinclair. :) Mike, yes, your brain is bigger than everyone's. :) Lisa, hope to see you there!

Roger, that was KC’s comparison, with the dinosaurs! The only dino names I know are Sinclair. :)

Mike, yes, your brain is bigger than everyone’s. :)

]]> By: Mike Chary http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32605 Mike Chary Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:08:44 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32605 Hmm, yes, it is a pity that only one planet is named after a female. What on <i><b>EARTH</b></i> could they have been thinking of? Hmm, yes, it is a pity that only one planet is named after a female. What on EARTH could they have been thinking of?

]]> By: Roger A http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32604 Roger A Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:50:32 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32604 No matter what they say, I'll still think of Pluto as a planet much in the same way as I still think there were Brontosauruses (Brontosauri?). I mean, they did exist, they just decided they were actually Apatasaurs. And Goofy was a Dawg. KC should know that. See you in Baltimore! No matter what they say, I’ll still think of Pluto as a planet much in the same way as I still think there were Brontosauruses (Brontosauri?). I mean, they did exist, they just decided they were actually Apatasaurs.

And Goofy was a Dawg. KC should know that.

See you in Baltimore!

]]> By: Lisa Lopacinski http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/comment-page-1/#comment-32601 Lisa Lopacinski Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:34:37 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2006/08/24/my-life-this-week-baltimore-and-pluto/#comment-32601 Guess it's time to change the text books and come up with a new neumonic for the planets. I'm going to the Baltimore Con this year and looking forward to it. We booked rooms in April and they were already getting hard to get and expensive. Guess it’s time to change the text books and come up with a new neumonic for the planets.

I’m going to the Baltimore Con this year and looking forward to it. We booked rooms in April and they were already getting hard to get and expensive.

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