Comments on: Tricky Question LinkBlogging

By: Josh Dahl

Josh Dahl — Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:58:21 +0000

I am that dingbat in question.
First of all, thank you for the assumption that I am a youngster. Makes me feel good.
Why was I pimping capes on a no-capes forum? The answer is in my original post on The Engine. I was NOT pimping capes, I was trying to address what I correctly saw as a need which was going un addressed.
The-engine is great forum to discuss the creation of comics, but I can not discuss all the aspects of the creation of my comics there. I reasoned that there may be more folks like me, just lurking in there. I was right. Read the responses.
If such a place already exists for discussing the theory and practice of creating superheroes, then I am unaware of it. You implythat there are already “enough of those”, please post some links so that I can use them.

Then, the author of this blog (Johanna? I apologize. I don’t completely understand the formatting on this page.) Notes that several “wannabes” (my target audience, who are not being fully served by The Engine) stepped forward to say what they like about making superhero comics. She then says that fans of superhero comics ARE being adequately served what they want bythe big 2, and what they want is “nostalgia and comfortable habits”.
This assumption absurd. Isn’t it more likely that the people who read superhero comics want exactly the same things that you want from your comics? Good stories, well told.
And why do they keep buying them? Comfortable habit? No. Because they want more good superhero comics.
And that need can never be met. People who want good comics that they like, will always want more good comics. Don’t you want more good comics? Is your desire for more good comics being adequately served to the point where you do not want any more good comics?
Of course not. That is silly.

By: Larry Young

Larry Young — Sat, 18 Nov 2006 18:31:16 +0000

Of course, we were originally talking about “starting out” and not “making a reputation.” Kirkman started out with BATTLE POPE, an irreverent MAD MAX rip.

By: Johanna

Johanna — Sat, 18 Nov 2006 16:21:15 +0000

All of the “longer memory” examples you mention are quite a while back, before the market entered its current phase, I would say. Kirkman is an interesting example, but although he did indy superheroes, he’s better known for launching the zombie craze with Walking Dead. It’s interesting that neither of us can think of another example beyond him.

By: Nat Gertler

Nat Gertler — Sat, 18 Nov 2006 00:07:38 +0000

With due respect to Larry, there are a fair number of writers in this industry who built their rep on superhero books done outside of the Big Two. Kirkman is the most obvious recent example. McCloud, Willingham, Wagner, Moore, Morrison, Baron are examples for those of us with longer memories.

On the topic of Diamond rejections, one thing that should be noted is that they’re going to be much harder on unknown creators coming from unknown companies. You folks might not love Tarot (I’ve never read it), but it comes from someone who had been established in the mainstream. Retailers weren’t being expected to order a pig-in-a-poke. There was an audience for Balent’s style of work, and that’s been fairly well supported by the long run that the book has had.
See,that’s the main goal of Diamond minding the gates – they don’t want books that won’t get ordered, and perhaps worse, they don’t want books that retailers order and then discover they can’t sell. I’m not saying that this applies reasonably to Shirtlifters, as I’ve not read it, but that is the intent at base.

By: Dan

Dan — Fri, 17 Nov 2006 06:36:48 +0000

Larry Young schools a youngster.

I was reading along with this thread when it happened, and the irony of Larry telling this dingbat to “do his market research” by couching it in a quick lesson on what else is out there, just cracked me up.

If you’re gonna pimp capes, you should probably not pick an “anything but superheros” forum to do it. And if you pick The Engine as your advertising mark of choice, somebody is going to school you before you get shut down.

By: Johanna

Johanna — Fri, 17 Nov 2006 00:05:57 +0000

Thanks — I was just curious if I was familiar with at least some of them.

By: Dorian

Dorian — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 23:37:06 +0000

I seem to recall reading that “The Magic If” was rejected by Diamond, but according to the publisher’s website Diamond does carry them. And that was the only example I could immediately think of. I don’t think Diamond carried individual issues of “Boy Trouble”, but they are carrying the trade. And their distribution of “Cavalcade of Boys” and “Circles” was inconsistent; they had some issues, but not others. Everything else that I know Diamond doesn’t carry is either porn or a mini-comic, and in those cases may not have even ever been sumitted to Diamond.

By: Johanna

Johanna — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:32:20 +0000

I can’t imagine the stores I’m thinking of not carrying, for instance, Stuck Rubber Baby, so we must be thinking of different groupings. But then, I came from Legion fandom, where if you have trouble with gay people/themes, you’re not going to last long.

Seriously, that’s a shameful thing to hear, and I’m sorry it’s the case. (For my enlightenment, which other n-p gay titles have had Diamond troubles?)

By: Dorian

Dorian — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:11:33 +0000

Non-pornographic gay comics have had trouble getting carried by Diamond in the past. And, as in this case, the only barrier to approval really does seem to be the gay content. Especially since, as has been noted, the quality of what Diamond will carry is often questionable, at best.

It has been my experience that most comic fans are extremely uncomfortable with both gay people and gay themes in comics, and this applies to retailers and distributors as well. Even most of the indy friendly stores I’ve gone to don’t carry any gay-themed comics.

By: Johanna

Johanna — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:47:52 +0000

Leaving aside the gay question — I’ve never noticed Diamond to have an issue in that specific area, but I suspect your knowledge about that is superior — there’s also the question of how often appeals can work, and whether a certain amount of fatigue sets in after a while when it comes to fighting their decisions.

Given that indy comics are only strongly supported by roughly a tenth of comic stores, do you think its content makes it tougher for this comic in particular? I mean, if I had to guess, I would think that the stores that really stock independent work are likely to be those that would support such material anyway.

By: Dorian

Dorian — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:51:29 +0000

You’re far more optimistic than I am about the chances of getting Diamond to reconsider carrying Shirtlifter. It IS a good comic, but it’s also a gay comic, and even if Diamond does decide to carry it, there are far too few stores who would be willing to stock it, and I’d be surprised if it could meet the minimum sales threshold.