Comments on: Superhero Comic Reader Stats http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/ Independent Opinions on Comics of All Kinds Sat, 07 Nov 2009 22:32:14 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Superhero Comic Readers Still Mostly Male » Comics Worth Reading http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-84296 Superhero Comic Readers Still Mostly Male » Comics Worth Reading Fri, 25 Jan 2008 01:41:33 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-84296 [...] She doesn’t say how recent the stats are, but they’re in line with those I reported from 1995, where 92% of DC readers were male. She’s surprised by this: Yes, the male/female [...]

[...] She doesn’t say how recent the stats are, but they’re in line with those I reported from 1995, where 92% of DC readers were male. She’s surprised by this: Yes, the male/female [...]

]]> By: Marvel Readership Survey » Comics Worth Reading http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-79275 Marvel Readership Survey » Comics Worth Reading Wed, 05 Dec 2007 03:02:15 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-79275 [...] reader surveys in random copies of their comics. (Here’s a post about the results of a similar DC effort from last decade.) KC found one in Penance: Relentless #3, so he brought it home for [...]

[...] reader surveys in random copies of their comics. (Here’s a post about the results of a similar DC effort from last decade.) KC found one in Penance: Relentless #3, so he brought it home for [...]

]]> By: Blog@Newsarama » Don’t you want more than my sex? http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-66469 Blog@Newsarama » Don’t you want more than my sex? Tue, 15 May 2007 15:46:08 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-66469 [...] 10th - Johanna posts decades old stats to back up her initial argument. 1. These figures date from 1995. A lot has changed since then. They’d done previous studies in [...]

[...] 10th – Johanna posts decades old stats to back up her initial argument. 1. These figures date from 1995. A lot has changed since then. They’d done previous studies in [...]

]]> By: Dave Ex Machina - A Thousand Points of Articulation » Do I Really Have to Go This Far Just to Make a Point? http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-66461 Dave Ex Machina - A Thousand Points of Articulation » Do I Really Have to Go This Far Just to Make a Point? Tue, 15 May 2007 14:05:31 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-66461 [...] for comics companies show that the audience for mainstream superhero comics is overwhelmingly male. For some people, this means that companies such as Marvel and DC don’t have to worry about being inclusive [...]

[...] for comics companies show that the audience for mainstream superhero comics is overwhelmingly male. For some people, this means that companies such as Marvel and DC don’t have to worry about being inclusive [...]

]]> By: Johanna http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-66423 Johanna Tue, 15 May 2007 00:47:35 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-66423 Your question is difficult to answer, because it depends on how you define comics. If you include all bookstore formats, including graphic novels and manga, then superheroes are a much smaller percentage than you might expect and likely still decreasing. (Sandman always reportedly had a very high female audience percentage, but I don't have any specifics on that.) (And yes, I totally agree that most people don't care about the editor -- I suspect his was the signature on the gimme only because he was in the office, thus no mailing costs or delays to get the signatures.) Your question is difficult to answer, because it depends on how you define comics. If you include all bookstore formats, including graphic novels and manga, then superheroes are a much smaller percentage than you might expect and likely still decreasing. (Sandman always reportedly had a very high female audience percentage, but I don’t have any specifics on that.)

(And yes, I totally agree that most people don’t care about the editor — I suspect his was the signature on the gimme only because he was in the office, thus no mailing costs or delays to get the signatures.)

]]> By: J. Eric Miller http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-66420 J. Eric Miller Mon, 14 May 2007 23:54:30 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-66420 I have little experience with market research, but would like to have a better grasp of it, particularly where comics are concerned, so I was very happy to come across this site and your posting, Johanna, in particular. Although you're discussing superhero comics specifically (I haven't read the earlier post by you yet), doesn't what you say apply somewhat to comics as a whole? In other words, what percentage of comics do superheroes account for at this point? In terms of the majors, Vertigo would be the principal exception, I expect, but I wonder what their readership demographics are. The majority of Vertigo's output -horror and crime (and even westerns)-traditionally seem to have a primarily male audience as well. I would think that the major exception is Sandman (and possibly BoM); do you know anything about that title's readership demographic? I think I understand why DC would guard this information, so that they can market to specific advertisers, but would they not be able to market just as successfully to advertisers whose target customers were in the same actual demographic groups as their readership if they had accurate marketing info? Do they expect the revenues from those advertisers they are trying to attract to be that much better than those they might attract with accurate demographic info? As for your point, which seems to be simply that most (superhero) comic readers are male, I find it laughable but not surprising that anyone would contest that. I realize that my lifetime of anecdotal evidence is worthless from a scientific standpoint, but the occasional times I encounter a woman who reads, say, Justice League, are remarkable for their rarity. I would ask the one guy who said women could be an audience for superhero comics if they were marketed to them correctly, how exactly is that? One only needs to LOOK at superhero comics to see that they're being marketed to men. I happened to look at a recent issue of Supergirl, and I saw this characer, a dark-haired man in an outfit that looked like a black version of Powergirl's costume, complete with a chest window, wherein we could see-instead of her cleavage-his chest hair. It looked so ludicrous that it could only draw further attention to the contrived costumes and ridiculously exagerated anatomy of almost every female character. Men are NEVER sexualized in s.h. comics the way women are almost ubiquitously. Even comics with strong female characterization-of which there are more than there were 12 years ago-suffer from this (it's hard to take the women in BoP seriously when Ed Benes draws them with Double D's, halter-tops and fishnets). Lastly, I might mention, that the incentive DC offered in the marketing research you talked about does seem a little lame. How hard would it have been to at least offer a copy autographed by the writer and artist? No disrespect intended to your husband, but there aren't many editor-driven titles out there. I have little experience with market research, but would like to have a better grasp of it, particularly where comics are concerned, so I was very happy to come across this site and your posting, Johanna, in particular. Although you’re discussing superhero comics specifically (I haven’t read the earlier post by you yet), doesn’t what you say apply somewhat to comics as a whole? In other words, what percentage of comics do superheroes account for at this point? In terms of the majors, Vertigo would be the principal exception, I expect, but I wonder what their readership demographics are. The majority of Vertigo’s output -horror and crime (and even westerns)-traditionally seem to have a primarily male audience as well. I would think that the major exception is Sandman (and possibly BoM); do you know anything about that title’s readership demographic?
I think I understand why DC would guard this information, so that they can market to specific advertisers, but would they not be able to market just as successfully to advertisers whose target customers were in the same actual demographic groups as their readership if they had accurate marketing info? Do they expect the revenues from those advertisers they are trying to attract to be that much better than those they might attract with accurate demographic info?
As for your point, which seems to be simply that most (superhero) comic readers are male, I find it laughable but not surprising that anyone would contest that. I realize that my lifetime of anecdotal evidence is worthless from a scientific standpoint, but the occasional times I encounter a woman who reads, say, Justice League, are remarkable for their rarity. I would ask the one guy who said women could be an audience for superhero comics if they were marketed to them correctly, how exactly is that? One only needs to LOOK at superhero comics to see that they’re being marketed to men. I happened to look at a recent issue of Supergirl, and I saw this characer, a dark-haired man in an outfit that looked like a black version of Powergirl’s costume, complete with a chest window, wherein we could see-instead of her cleavage-his chest hair. It looked so ludicrous that it could only draw further attention to the contrived costumes and ridiculously exagerated anatomy of almost every female character. Men are NEVER sexualized in s.h. comics the way women are almost ubiquitously. Even comics with strong female characterization-of which there are more than there were 12 years ago-suffer from this (it’s hard to take the women in BoP seriously when Ed Benes draws them with Double D’s, halter-tops and fishnets).
Lastly, I might mention, that the incentive DC offered in the marketing research you talked about does seem a little lame. How hard would it have been to at least offer a copy autographed by the writer and artist? No disrespect intended to your husband, but there aren’t many editor-driven titles out there.

]]> By: James Schee http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-66263 James Schee Sat, 12 May 2007 16:45:56 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-66263 Yeah that's what I meant, that only those who wanted to make have themselves counted for one reason or another. Probably took the time to do all of this, hence my GL fans analogy since I remembered a number of them feeling at the time (Hal fans at least) that felt they weren't being acknowledged. Yeah that’s what I meant, that only those who wanted to make have themselves counted for one reason or another. Probably took the time to do all of this, hence my GL fans analogy since I remembered a number of them feeling at the time (Hal fans at least) that felt they weren’t being acknowledged.

]]> By: Paul O'Brien http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-66257 Paul O'Brien Sat, 12 May 2007 09:05:25 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-66257 I wouldn't assume that people fill in these forms because they have an axe to grind, but it's certainly true that you have to allow for the self-selecting sample. By definition, the "don't cares" are massively underrepresented in this sort of survey, because they don't care enough to fill it in. I wouldn’t assume that people fill in these forms because they have an axe to grind, but it’s certainly true that you have to allow for the self-selecting sample. By definition, the “don’t cares” are massively underrepresented in this sort of survey, because they don’t care enough to fill it in.

]]> By: Alan Coil http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-66247 Alan Coil Fri, 11 May 2007 23:09:17 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-66247 Statistics are an odd thing. They are incredibly accurate if measured properly. Yet they sometimes seem illogical. I had training through work about 20 years ago. The trainer said if you survey 1000 people, the chances are that the results would be the same if you had surveyed 10,000 or 20,000, etc.. Illogically, the trainer also said that in a room of 25 (23?) people, chances were fairly good that there would be 2 people with the same birthday. There were 17 of us in the room and 2 were born on Christmas Day. Statistics are an odd thing. They are incredibly accurate if measured properly. Yet they sometimes seem illogical.

I had training through work about 20 years ago. The trainer said if you survey 1000 people, the chances are that the results would be the same if you had surveyed 10,000 or 20,000, etc..

Illogically, the trainer also said that in a room of 25 (23?) people, chances were fairly good that there would be 2 people with the same birthday. There were 17 of us in the room and 2 were born on Christmas Day.

]]> By: Lyle Masaki http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-66244 Lyle Masaki Fri, 11 May 2007 21:41:09 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-66244 I don't think that's what's meant by axe to grind. I take it as the people who responded to the survey were motivated to have themselves counted as DC readers. I go ahead and take any optional survey like this I encounter (including a few for DC) because I know I'm making a small influence on the product by representing myself as a consumer (since I fit in several desirable demos). For example, there have been a couple times DC did these surveys over the web with a house ad announcing them. I made sure to come through the Vertigo site because I wanted to make my traits representative of Vertigo readers. I don’t think that’s what’s meant by axe to grind. I take it as the people who responded to the survey were motivated to have themselves counted as DC readers. I go ahead and take any optional survey like this I encounter (including a few for DC) because I know I’m making a small influence on the product by representing myself as a consumer (since I fit in several desirable demos).

For example, there have been a couple times DC did these surveys over the web with a house ad announcing them. I made sure to come through the Vertigo site because I wanted to make my traits representative of Vertigo readers.

]]> By: ryan_cf http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-66239 ryan_cf Fri, 11 May 2007 19:12:53 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-66239 If the survey was anything like the one I filled out through DC's subscriptions page (and I bet it was), any axe to grind with the content of a comic would be irrelevant. It doesn't actually ask you if you like the comic. It asks you about what kind of products you currently own and would plan to own in the future. Ad execs don't know and don't care about the content within the comics. They want to know about what sort of items the people likely to buy the comic might also likely buy (thus the questions about: do you own a CD player? Are you likely to buy a new CD player in the next six months?). It's all very NOT comic related, which is why the return rates of the surveys are often so low. And probably why DC incentivized people for returning surveys, lest they get NO response for their efforts. If the survey was anything like the one I filled out through DC’s subscriptions page (and I bet it was), any axe to grind with the content of a comic would be irrelevant. It doesn’t actually ask you if you like the comic. It asks you about what kind of products you currently own and would plan to own in the future.

Ad execs don’t know and don’t care about the content within the comics. They want to know about what sort of items the people likely to buy the comic might also likely buy (thus the questions about: do you own a CD player? Are you likely to buy a new CD player in the next six months?). It’s all very NOT comic related, which is why the return rates of the surveys are often so low. And probably why DC incentivized people for returning surveys, lest they get NO response for their efforts.

]]> By: James Schee http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-66234 James Schee Fri, 11 May 2007 17:19:44 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-66234 Paul, I kind of wonder how many of those that responded did so because they had an axe to grind. Sort of like those cards at restaraunts that only get filled out if someone is unhappy. Back in that time period I saw many fans with certain agendas, Green Lantern fans for one, who would pick apart a book panel by panel to talk about how awful it was. Which maybe was part of the time allotted? Because otherwise, then wow so much for comics helping readers improve reading skills.:) Paul, I kind of wonder how many of those that responded did so because they had an axe to grind. Sort of like those cards at restaraunts that only get filled out if someone is unhappy.

Back in that time period I saw many fans with certain agendas, Green Lantern fans for one, who would pick apart a book panel by panel to talk about how awful it was. Which maybe was part of the time allotted? Because otherwise, then wow so much for comics helping readers improve reading skills.:)

]]> By: I Don't Think I Want to Get In the Middle of This... « In One Ear… http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-66231 I Don't Think I Want to Get In the Middle of This... « In One Ear… Fri, 11 May 2007 13:58:23 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-66231 [...] In One Ear… “I see myself as a creative explosion ready to be unleashed” « Don’t Believe the Hype… I Don’t Think I Want to Get In the Middle of This… May 11th, 2007 A small battle of words has broken out over this(and it’s follow-up posts). [...]

[...] In One Ear… “I see myself as a creative explosion ready to be unleashed” « Don’t Believe the Hype… I Don’t Think I Want to Get In the Middle of This… May 11th, 2007 A small battle of words has broken out over this(and it’s follow-up posts). [...]

]]> By: Paul O'Brien http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-66229 Paul O'Brien Fri, 11 May 2007 13:43:38 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-66229 How was the "average time" question phrased? The 45-minute answer makes a lot more sense if respondents thought they were being asked to provide a total time, including re-readings. How was the “average time” question phrased? The 45-minute answer makes a lot more sense if respondents thought they were being asked to provide a total time, including re-readings.

]]> By: Johanna http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-66213 Johanna Fri, 11 May 2007 10:55:38 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-66213 Ragnell, why would I offer something I don't believe in? You and others continue to criticize strawmen, I can only assume because you don't want to engage what I'm actually saying. If you really believe that a majority of women would be drawn to superheroes, it's up to you to prove your assertion; I find it implausible at best, based on sales and history. And your amateur psychology is laughable as well as misguided. Only in comics fandom does direct experience working for a company make some consider you *less* reliable in talking about the way they work. Ragnell, why would I offer something I don’t believe in? You and others continue to criticize strawmen, I can only assume because you don’t want to engage what I’m actually saying. If you really believe that a majority of women would be drawn to superheroes, it’s up to you to prove your assertion; I find it implausible at best, based on sales and history.

And your amateur psychology is laughable as well as misguided. Only in comics fandom does direct experience working for a company make some consider you *less* reliable in talking about the way they work.

]]> By: Journalista - the news weblog of The Comics Journal » Blog Archive » May 11, 2007: Freakish outliers http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-66212 Journalista - the news weblog of The Comics Journal » Blog Archive » May 11, 2007: Freakish outliers Fri, 11 May 2007 10:47:44 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-66212 [...] offers a reaction to the argument in a follow-up thread, then returns again with some demographic statistics from the genre’s final heyday in the 1990s. It’s interesting reading, all [...]

[...] offers a reaction to the argument in a follow-up thread, then returns again with some demographic statistics from the genre’s final heyday in the 1990s. It’s interesting reading, all [...]

]]> By: Ragnell http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-66198 Ragnell Fri, 11 May 2007 05:28:28 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-66198 Even if these stats WERE current and reliable (which they are not), you've still offered nothing that justifies the continuation of the criticized aspects of superhero comics, nor any evidence that superheroes wouldn't appeal to a majority of women if properly marketed to them. I don't know what happened to you when you worked for DC, but it was years ago. Time to let those of us who are attracted to their comics discuss them without bringing your grudge into it. Even if these stats WERE current and reliable (which they are not), you’ve still offered nothing that justifies the continuation of the criticized aspects of superhero comics, nor any evidence that superheroes wouldn’t appeal to a majority of women if properly marketed to them.

I don’t know what happened to you when you worked for DC, but it was years ago. Time to let those of us who are attracted to their comics discuss them without bringing your grudge into it.

]]> By: Johanna http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-66192 Johanna Fri, 11 May 2007 03:10:31 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-66192 There was a page of statements about how the surveys were randomized based on percentage of sales compared to overall print runs, so it seems that the firm conducting the survey took your point into consideration. And I'd assumed that DC hired a firm good at this -- they tended to do that when going with outside contractors. If you want to believe it, there's evidence for that. If you don't, I'm sure there are holes you can pick in it. That's why I started the way I did, because I wanted to beat to the punch those looking for reasons to write off answers they didn't like. There was a page of statements about how the surveys were randomized based on percentage of sales compared to overall print runs, so it seems that the firm conducting the survey took your point into consideration. And I’d assumed that DC hired a firm good at this — they tended to do that when going with outside contractors.

If you want to believe it, there’s evidence for that. If you don’t, I’m sure there are holes you can pick in it. That’s why I started the way I did, because I wanted to beat to the punch those looking for reasons to write off answers they didn’t like.

]]> By: kalinara http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-66190 kalinara Fri, 11 May 2007 02:50:46 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-66190 That's honestly my point, Johanna. Random can lead toward startling coincidences, like standardized tests with six answers in a row that are "A". That's why I'd want to see exactly which comics the surveys ended up going out in. What percentage ended up going out in particularly "guy-oriented" comics, and which in comics like Supergirl or Young Justice, because that sort of thing DOES skew results. To get any sort of useful results, the analysts would have had to keep track of what comics were randomly selected, what destinations were randomly chosen, to weed out error as much as possible. And honestly, 3200 is still much too small to get an adequate, unweighted sample. It'd be like polling 25 students on a campus of hundreds or thousands asking them what they think about certain changes. You'll get interesting results, but no sane analyst would use it to draw sweeping conclusions without a LOT more corroborating data. That’s honestly my point, Johanna. Random can lead toward startling coincidences, like standardized tests with six answers in a row that are “A”. That’s why I’d want to see exactly which comics the surveys ended up going out in. What percentage ended up going out in particularly “guy-oriented” comics, and which in comics like Supergirl or Young Justice, because that sort of thing DOES skew results. To get any sort of useful results, the analysts would have had to keep track of what comics were randomly selected, what destinations were randomly chosen, to weed out error as much as possible.

And honestly, 3200 is still much too small to get an adequate, unweighted sample. It’d be like polling 25 students on a campus of hundreds or thousands asking them what they think about certain changes.

You’ll get interesting results, but no sane analyst would use it to draw sweeping conclusions without a LOT more corroborating data.

]]> By: Johanna http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/comment-page-1/#comment-66188 Johanna Fri, 11 May 2007 02:36:24 +0000 http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/05/10/superhero-comic-reader-stats/#comment-66188 David: Hey! The proposal was good, although it turned into something else in execution. My favorite thing about that part of the story is that KC doesn't remember signing those issues. He says it's all a big blur to him now. Kalinara: The surveys were randomly inserted into issues of comics across DC's entire line at the time, in numbers proportional to the readership of the titles. So it wasn't based on locations but on publications. As for what it proves... I'm the one who believes their comics are for guys, and I never would have guessed that the numbers were that high. So I found it surprisingly monolithic. If you don't get anything out of it, all I have is a polite unsurprised shrug. Me, I have filled out their online surveys every time I've come across ads for them, because I like to have a voice and show them a non-typical reader. David: Hey! The proposal was good, although it turned into something else in execution. My favorite thing about that part of the story is that KC doesn’t remember signing those issues. He says it’s all a big blur to him now.

Kalinara: The surveys were randomly inserted into issues of comics across DC’s entire line at the time, in numbers proportional to the readership of the titles. So it wasn’t based on locations but on publications.

As for what it proves… I’m the one who believes their comics are for guys, and I never would have guessed that the numbers were that high. So I found it surprisingly monolithic. If you don’t get anything out of it, all I have is a polite unsurprised shrug.

Me, I have filled out their online surveys every time I’ve come across ads for them, because I like to have a voice and show them a non-typical reader.

]]>