[...] women readers. Shame that the future-looking webcomic initiative seems to be tainted with the same it’s not for girls thinking that DC puts into their superhero comics. [...]

[...] my notorious opinions on the subject, you won’t be surprised to find out that I’ve had my own run-ins with one of that team, [...]

[...] shouldn’t (and I’m not picking on Heidi, bless her optimism). Those familiar with the history of the superhero genre in the American comic market will not be surprised that an image of a female hero was changed to [...]

Steven R (who used to write a lot more about comics, back when he was paid to do so – so I admire all of yall who write so well for free)

[...] at Filmfodder takes off from recent discussions to ask a good question: WHAT DO WOMEN WANT IN SUPERHERO COMICS? What would draw you in? … [...]

I’ve crossed swords with Karen “I’m so scary-enlightened I don’t need to listen to anybody else” Healy, and Livia “Enough about my point, let’s talk about my point”, and their like before. They represent a wave of third-wave feminism which seems to enjoy fighting losing battles so they can champion their own victimization.

As my wife likes to say, “Focusing on how victimized you are, keeps you a victim”.

I’d like to point out to many of you young turks and turkettes who were pointed here from your faux-feminist inflated self-righteous slice of the web, that Johanna has walked the walk while you’ve been talking the talk. She’s not your straw man to beat up. You can forgive her if she’s tired.

As recent as Willow, you’ve come here indignant and left indignant and learned nothing. That’s just the kind of closed mindedness that will win you nothing in this world. Let alone with the Big 2. Meanwhile you’ve shit on your sister in the interests of masturbating your own talking-point without appreciating she’s been there and done that.

I’m a male feminist superhero comic lover. Why do I love superhero comics? B/c they have more women kicking ass per capita than any other entertainment industry. I’ve grown up with comic book females as my real and genuine heroes (except they’re being fictional… shut up). Is it perfect? Not always, maybe even rarely. But you completely bypass the good works and humble efforts of several individuals* so you can keep your frustrations around you like a security blanket. Congratulations, you’ve made yourself the victim you’ve been hoping you are.

(*incuding Dan Didio. It’s easy to pick on Dan, he can be kind-of a douche, but have you missed his fighting for Manhunter despite it not making him money, or his avid support of BoP? How about making most of the changes fans have clamored for this past year, despite personally disagreeing with them? You’re just mad that he won’t give you a case for Stephanie, or everything you want).

Comics aren’t perfect, there’s always going to be room for change/improvement. You can call and clamor for it, that’s your right. However–, well, people have said it better than I will be able to (especially Johanna, if you’ve been listening) as far as what is fair and reasonable to expect or how your time might be better spent.

Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you get an inch, take it, don’t demand the whole mile at once (miles are made of inches). Vote with your wallet. Blah, blah, blah, idioms.

Read this blog for what it’s intended and you just might find titles you like better.

Again, thank you Johanna for bothering to make your original point that set this whole thing off, and I hope you get back to your regularly scheduled blogging ASAP.

See, I tend to see to view soap-opera style plotting as part of what makes Heroes so superhero-y.

So, having women read comics and discuss their displeasure about how women are portrayed in those comics – that’s a big step in the right direction. It’s women actually admitting that there’s nothing wrong with reading superhero comics. Sure, the content might not always be what women would like to see, but the fact that they’re seeing it at all is a good sign that at least there are a few who are paying attention.

Nor am I clear on, exactly, what point Willow is trying to make. At what point did Johanna suggest that she didn’t wish to see stronger portrayals of female characters? Does having working experience at the Big 2 and having years of experience critiquing comics (and having abandoned the Big 2) count for nothing?

It’s a far cry from pointing out reasons how or why something may be a status quo from actually supporting that status quo. I would hope everyone could respect the difference.

I’m curious as to what positive examples you would cite of what you’d like to see more of in comics. It’s pretty clear what’s not working, perhaps more gray as to what a majority can agree is offensive. But what IS working is completely left out of the debate.

“We’re being left out” isn’t much of a rallying cry. Spending your money on stuff that works for you speaks louder than anything. What could Superman or Batman or Wolverine do for you from your perspective to bring you in as a reader? What would indicate to you that female readership is receiving equal respect?

Honestly, I’ve been reading this discussion for a week and I don’t think I’ve heard one constructive comment regarding how superhero comics could actually meet the expectations of the folks choosing to lob complaints.

And if you want examples of minorities taking the reins, I suggest that you read up on black or latino filmmaking from the dawn of the industry to the present, and the fiercely independent methods used (but whose distribution has never been equal). Hop over here and check out this link:

http://www.black-cinema.org/blackcinema.html

It might sound a bit familiar.

I was asking you if you were advocating Separate But Equal. And if you didn’t think it’d be offensive because it was couched in terms of gender while that phrase is heavily loaded in terms of race.

To you it’s bailing from a sinking ship. Personally it reminds me of the blacks escaped America’s racial politics and dangers to go live in France and/or other places where they’d feel counted as human beings.

But perhaps that’s simply because of how I’m reading your tone. And you do admit to having a certain tone because superhero comics aren’t your thing.

Howver, now I have my answer, you advocate that I and others like me stop trying to see ourselves in the comics that first captivated our attention and branch out to do our own separate thing.

This is not a policy I can personally agree to. But thank you for letting me know exactly where you stand.

And yes, I would give the same advice to a black guy who was disturbed by the racism in superhero comics: there are plenty of good alternatives to read out there, would you like some recommendations? have you considered making your own or supporting those who do?

Saying “that’s an easier, more rewarding attempt that makes more sense to me personally” doesn’t equal “leaving the world to the white man”. It’s not “separate but equal” but bailing from the sinking, outdated ship of superhero comics into a much more fruitful world with a lot more options. In my opinion.

Or not, since women comprise just over 10% of people claiming to be “Superhero Comic Book Readers”, and only 20% of all “Comic Book Readers”.

(Disclaimers: Self-selected surveys ditributed at a hybrid Comic Book/Anime convention in the Phoenix, AZ, metro area.)

(Disclaimers disclaimer: These numbers have held steady in half a dozen surveys since 1998, across two states, and at comic cons and comic shops.)

I will however offer that females comprised 15% of those readers who said they started reading comics with Superheroes. So comics can attract a female audience, they just have problems keeping them. (Superheroes were also the largest percentage for any starting genre. So even if they are not “mainstream” they remain “gateway” into the hobby. So simply dismissing them in favor of Manga isn’t reasonable either.)

If you switch it from ‘positive female portrayals’ in super hero comics to ‘positive people of color portrayals‘ do you still think that world should be left to the white men between 18-45 and people of color should create their own ghetto slice of the super hero pie? Because nothing is going to change because blacks, latinos, asians and women have no true power to change anything when fighting against the great capitalist regime?

Rich white boys will be boys? And their toys will always be their toys?

Is this like segregation? Separate but equal? ‘Cause if I’m misunderstanding you please make yourself clearer.

That rocks!

[...] internet can go batshit insane about normal, everyday issues without me, warms my heart. Thanks to Johanna for picking up the [...]