In the case of the statue, Sideshow has been deleting comments that criticized the statue, but certainly not in the way of OMG THIS STATUE SUX! (I have seen people post like this. It’s frightening). Sometimes the statement is more grammatical, or put in different words, but it has the same implication: The thing in questions is horrible because the poster says it is horrible.

I think we have a valid reason, however, to not like the statue. The attack you deleted…well, I don’t know the contents of that attack. However, “you’re not worth listening to and I’ve thought so for years” is definitly an unreasonable argument.

Here’s the thing. Sideshow has been deleting negative but REASONABLE comments.

Devildoll has been deleting trolls who signed up just to piss her off. They had no argument at all.

[...] agreement breeds confidence on the internet (good old ad populum), here is someone who agrees with me about the pointlessness of righteous [...]

[...] threads of the anti-statue brigade and began flamewars of their own, a situation documented best by Johanna Draper Carlson. By going after a harmless bit of cheesecake fluff rather than actual misogynistic storytelling in [...]

Merlewhitefire brings up one area where I do see a difference between the two groups deleting comments… consider how there’s been a lot of attention to feminist bloggers receiving death threats and other threats of violence (including one recent case where a blogger was photoshopped into pictures in threatening ways), I’d be willing to consider that the feminists deleting comments might have been doing more than suppressing criticism.

Fair enough ^^.

The same general idea may still apply, but yeah, I’d say it’s a bit different to complain about deleting any disagreeing comments on a commercial site (which, one supposes, has a paid moderator) and banning people who repeatedly disrupt the conversation and/or become abuse on a personal blog mostly supported as a hobby.

Which is why Ragnell’s advice to take screen shots is a good idea; assuming the feminist bloggers/fans are being truthful in their descriptions of what they are deleting versus what the forums are deleting, I think a significant number of people will see a definite lack of hypocrisy.

[...] now, or at least in the comics blogosphere. The Mary Jane statue thing is a big deal currently, though it isn’t without it’s problems, and it is honestly what prompted this post of [...]

Lis — as always, opinions vary. When I first started discussing this issue, I got some very nasty messages (that I removed) from some of the self-identified feminists who thought they were just being critical, not realizing that they’d crossed the line of appropriate behavior. The line may not always be as bright as we’d like to think, especially when people are strongly emotionally involved.

David — heh. Thank you for your compliment. It was a rather tough period… but surviving it puts much of the rest of this in perspective.

Love the quote. I totally agree that those who seriously want to change things have to be both different and better, regardless of how unfair or tough that seems.

Yes, moderation is necessary — I learned that lesson well when I was responsible for the DC Comics Green Lantern board during HEAT’s glory days.

Cripes, that’s actually kind of impressive. You’re a better person than I.

Anyway, regarding your point on engaging vs silencing– I recently made a comment on Carla Hewitt’s blog on the same subject. Here’s the meat of it:

Why would you immediately assume the worst and respond out of spite? That’s a crap response. If someone wanted dialogue or real change, they’d be open to someone else saying “I don’t get it. What am I missing?”

If someone says, “Help,” don’t say “You didn’t say please.” Screw that.

Let the rest of the internet be jerks. If you’re going for change or dialogue or even just intelligent discourse, you’ve got to be different and/or better.

For context, Carla had made a post about the statue where she basically stated (paraphrasing) “I don’t get it, the art is kind of cool. Tell me what I am missing and I swear to listen to your every word.” The response was an insult and (quoting) “I’m honestly not certain whether you’re intellectually dishonest, or just missed the critical distinction, but I shall assume the former.”

re: misrepresentation– I tend to agree with Dirk on that one. The problem is that the statue has no context at all. You just see Woman + Basket + Assets. the story behind it is that Spidey slipped his laundry into MJ’s load and she’s smiling at him trying to trick her. With that, the statue is a little bit less of an issue for me, though it’s still a pretty thoroughly ugly bit of plastic or clay or whatever.

Adam Hughes’s concept art for it was charming, the statue itself is mediocre.

Do you really not see the difference between:

(a) personal insults, harassment and trolls,
(b) on-topic critical comments (Newsarama example from Sideshow’s boards — and I challenge you to explain how Lisa Fortuner violated the board’s posting guidelines), and
(c) closing down ALL comments, even though people are having productive discussion.
To his credit, after an evening to cool down, Tom Hughes restored the comment threads and a rollicking discussion has ensued.

If you can’t distinguish betwen (a) and (b), look up Kathy Sierra…

I think as long as her points are so interesting that you guys quote her, why not accept that she writes that way and just quote her.

You’re not her mum, you’re not responsible for her style, so why apologise?

As a non-native speaker I find it difficult to read myself, but then I’m not the intended audience and I still get her if I read slowly and it is her ideas I find interesting, not her spelling.

Maybe I have a higher tolerance because I’m an ESL teacher in real life and see much worse or had to cultivate acceptance of what little German English speakers have and tend to misquote ^^.

I apologize for my writing style :( I know some ppl dun like it :\

Maybe eventually I’ll get bored and write normally XD It happens :3

But this is just how I like writing :D I opened my blog just b/c a few friends of mine were interested in comics and wanted to read more of what I had to say about it :D

I’m happy other ppl read it, but I feel like if ppl read me, it’s a bonus and they’re visiting my blog :) But I dun write to change the world or nething XD

For the record, I nevar troll other ppl’s LJs posting that I disagree with them or telling them they’re wrong XD I just dun see the point :)

And I’ve been trying to keep out of it, I haven’t even made a comment about hating the statue (except that I wasn’t fond of it, BUT I didn’t mind the clothing since I wear that).

But nobody bothered to read my opinions on the statue. They grabbed a link from WFA (that wasn’t about the statue at all) and then started attacking points I never made or me in general. :\

They just wanted to pick a fight :(

That’s mostly what I was complaining about. It’s not even disagreeing with points, it’s the fact that right now ppl are trolling other ppl’s journals just to fight. :\

And it makes me sad :( But I’m not saying it should be illegal or nething XD

But ppl posting on the manufacturer’s site is different. As potential customers they have the right to. And the manufacturer also has the right (and did use it) to moderate the comments as they see fit. *nods*

So I dun rly see the problem there. :\

If it’s ppl who dun like the statue going onto blogs of ppl who LIKE the statue and telling them they’re wrong to like it, I dun think that’s useful at all. :\ And it goes along with what I was saying XD

It’s the same as ppl coming to their blogs and insulting them for not liking it.

Honestly, if ppl dun like it, their beef is with the manufacturer. But whether you like it or not is a personal choice. :( And fighting about it wun change nething at all.

However, this is just my opinion :3

Let me try this way: those being moderated, whether pro- or anti-statue, rarely agree that it was necessary to remove their comments. Perhaps those complaining that their comments against the statue were removed were thought to be “bashing or just saying ‘how stupid’” too.

That doesn’t make it censorship.