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	<title>Comments on: Where Is the Heroine? Thoughts on Seven Basic Plots</title>
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		<title>By: David Oakes</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/10/02/where-is-the-heroine-thoughts-on-seven-basic-plots/comment-page-1/#comment-75405</link>
		<dc:creator>David Oakes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Atalanta is a strong female character to be sure, but she is never the Hero.  On the Argos she is just one of many Sidekicks.  (Assuming she was not banned for being a woman, as some of the stories go.)  Yes, she kills the Calydonian Boar, but she does so at the behest of Meleager, who has to protect her.  He is then killed for defending her, yet she does not avenge him.  And in her classic story, the race with the Golden Apples, she is actually the villain!

My guess is that, like Ripley, Booker would dismiss her as &quot;unbalanced&quot;, too Masculine.  And unlike Ripley, I would have to agree with him.  She is not just a strong woman who does need a man, she refuses to have a man and is willing to kill anyone that tries.  She has to be &quot;saved&quot; from this condition - and brought out from the shadow of her Dark Tyrant father - by a male hero who outruns her, outwits her, and does it all for love.

As for Clarice, Booker devotes time specifically to her place in &quot;Silence&quot;.  Again, her seems to ague from the assumption that any strong female character is &quot;too masculine&quot;, and &quot;proves&quot; this by claiming that her prima facia Adventure story (or Male Plot) morphs itself into a Female plot about feelings to &quot;balance&quot; out what went wrong.  I think that, like Ripley, she shows a better balance of Male and Female traits, and should be lauded as a more &quot;integrated&quot; character than most of her male contemporaries.  But like Atalanta, she&#039;s not the Hero.  She may win the battle in capturing Buffalo Bill, but she loses the war.  Ultimately she is seduced by the stronger, Male, character of Lecter.  He defeats her, and goes on to take over the entire plot.  I think that, in a vaccum, Clarice Starling is a great role-model for women.  But in the context of &quot;Silence&quot;, and the meta-context of the cottage industry that sprang up around Lecter, she is just another example of females who are allowed to be strong only if they don&#039;t completely win, as long as there is one male they can&#039;t defeat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Atalanta is a strong female character to be sure, but she is never the Hero.  On the Argos she is just one of many Sidekicks.  (Assuming she was not banned for being a woman, as some of the stories go.)  Yes, she kills the Calydonian Boar, but she does so at the behest of Meleager, who has to protect her.  He is then killed for defending her, yet she does not avenge him.  And in her classic story, the race with the Golden Apples, she is actually the villain!</p>
<p>My guess is that, like Ripley, Booker would dismiss her as &#8220;unbalanced&#8221;, too Masculine.  And unlike Ripley, I would have to agree with him.  She is not just a strong woman who does need a man, she refuses to have a man and is willing to kill anyone that tries.  She has to be &#8220;saved&#8221; from this condition &#8211; and brought out from the shadow of her Dark Tyrant father &#8211; by a male hero who outruns her, outwits her, and does it all for love.</p>
<p>As for Clarice, Booker devotes time specifically to her place in &#8220;Silence&#8221;.  Again, her seems to ague from the assumption that any strong female character is &#8220;too masculine&#8221;, and &#8220;proves&#8221; this by claiming that her prima facia Adventure story (or Male Plot) morphs itself into a Female plot about feelings to &#8220;balance&#8221; out what went wrong.  I think that, like Ripley, she shows a better balance of Male and Female traits, and should be lauded as a more &#8220;integrated&#8221; character than most of her male contemporaries.  But like Atalanta, she&#8217;s not the Hero.  She may win the battle in capturing Buffalo Bill, but she loses the war.  Ultimately she is seduced by the stronger, Male, character of Lecter.  He defeats her, and goes on to take over the entire plot.  I think that, in a vaccum, Clarice Starling is a great role-model for women.  But in the context of &#8220;Silence&#8221;, and the meta-context of the cottage industry that sprang up around Lecter, she is just another example of females who are allowed to be strong only if they don&#8217;t completely win, as long as there is one male they can&#8217;t defeat.</p>
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		<title>By: Tommy Raiko</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/10/02/where-is-the-heroine-thoughts-on-seven-basic-plots/comment-page-1/#comment-75359</link>
		<dc:creator>Tommy Raiko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:06:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Huh.  What about Greek mythology&#039;s Atalanta, who is, in many versions of the stories, definitely an active superhero? I mean, if you&#039;re going to look at Greek literature and fable and the vast array of heroines it affords, it seems weird to settle on Ariadne as the best example of active heroine-ism.

Slightly more recent, what of a character like Clarice Starling in &quot;Silence of the Lambs&quot;? I vaguely remember hearing an interview with Jodie Foster where she mentioned that one of the reasons she was attracted to the role was because it represented a female hero&#039;s journey, a sort of distaff version of the Hero&#039;s Journey popularized by Joseph Campbell (and, closer to our own comic hobby, the guys behind the ACTION PHILOSOPHERS comic: http://www.eviltwincomics.com/action/images/poster-big.jpg )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huh.  What about Greek mythology&#8217;s Atalanta, who is, in many versions of the stories, definitely an active superhero? I mean, if you&#8217;re going to look at Greek literature and fable and the vast array of heroines it affords, it seems weird to settle on Ariadne as the best example of active heroine-ism.</p>
<p>Slightly more recent, what of a character like Clarice Starling in &#8220;Silence of the Lambs&#8221;? I vaguely remember hearing an interview with Jodie Foster where she mentioned that one of the reasons she was attracted to the role was because it represented a female hero&#8217;s journey, a sort of distaff version of the Hero&#8217;s Journey popularized by Joseph Campbell (and, closer to our own comic hobby, the guys behind the ACTION PHILOSOPHERS comic: <a href="http://www.eviltwincomics.com/action/images/poster-big.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.eviltwincomics.com/action/images/poster-big.jpg</a> )</p>
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		<title>By: Johanna</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/10/02/where-is-the-heroine-thoughts-on-seven-basic-plots/comment-page-1/#comment-75306</link>
		<dc:creator>Johanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 16:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That&#039;s one of the reasons I wanted to post this -- in the hope that those more familiar than I with the works cited would share their experiences and knowledge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s one of the reasons I wanted to post this &#8212; in the hope that those more familiar than I with the works cited would share their experiences and knowledge.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyle</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/10/02/where-is-the-heroine-thoughts-on-seven-basic-plots/comment-page-1/#comment-75302</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I was actually in a reverse-gendered production of Peer Gynt... if the translation we followed was at all loyal I wouldn&#039;t consider Solveig an active heroine at the least -- something that becomes clearer when Solveig is played by a man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was actually in a reverse-gendered production of Peer Gynt&#8230; if the translation we followed was at all loyal I wouldn&#8217;t consider Solveig an active heroine at the least &#8212; something that becomes clearer when Solveig is played by a man.</p>
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