DC doesn’t play that game. They continue to take returns. Marvel, being the biggest fish in the pond, sits wherever they want to.

“Marc-Oliver Frisch nailed it; it’s the changing of the solicitation that makes the item returnable,…”

Just wanted to mention that this is not necessarily true–Marvel changes solicitations all the time, but no longer does returns.

They should, but they don’t.

First of all, I’m completely cool with my mail order company (mailordercomics.com, plug plug) for how they handled it. I was given the option of a refund or of upgrading to the new edition. I have another day or two to make up my mind.

Marc-Oliver Frisch nailed it; it’s the changing of the solicitation that makes the item returnable, not some generous move on Top Cow’s part.

And as Johanna points out, this book isn’t Absolute-sized; it’s closer (albiet a little bigger) than a Marvel oversized hardcover. If one of those books can go $35-40, why is Midnight Nation $100? After all, there is plenty of material published by Marvel in that format by both creators at a more reasonable price point.

What most mystifies me is the decision to swap the format on the fly, giving retailers two weeks to make decisions about a now $100 book. If Top Cow really believes in this format, why not give these products a full release cycle and promotion? I would have understood cancelling the original solicits and resoliciting the book in the new format and size. This move comes off as less than fair to the Direct Market retailer.

I found all this very interesting considering the remarks by Diamond’s VP of Purchasing, Bill Schanes, in a recent Newsarama article (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/010921-Schanes-Diamond.html). He said the following:

“…but we also have to ask publishers what they’re going to do to help themselves? Often times, publishers feel their responsibility to the product is done once they hit send on that final e-mail. We don’t feel that’s fair — we feel that they should be driving business to the retailers, and helping Diamond help market their product. We don’t think it’s the responsibility of the distributor to be 100% of the sales, marketing and commercial arm of the publisher. We can augment their effort, but we should not be the only effort.”

For these $100 products, Top Cow has abdicated the responsibility of helping Diamond and the retailers market these products. If Top Cow was really serious about these products, they’d get a full solicit and the marketing push that retailers would need to sell them. Instead, they’re being sold with no promotion, no hype, and the stink of a last-minute tripling of the price. No doubt about it, it’s a Stupid Publisher Trick.
–

I did have to note the following: Ron Marz’s Broken Trinity has been, to date, the only comic that my wife picked up and read without any prompting from me. She enjoyed the book. She’s never read any graphic novel I’ve recommended or pushed, even though she reads two to three books a week. There still might be some T&A at Top Cow (I don’t think they’ll ever get it completely out of their DNA), but I give them kudos for creating a comic that my wife liked.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t product returnable by default when it’s not as solicited?

It seems to me that the fair thing to do here would be to resolicit the books, instead of leaving the ball – and the hassle – in the retailers’ and customers’ court.

It was my first comics exposure to JMS.

First issue can be read free here
http://www.topcow.com/Site/readers/dragonprince1/Default.html

[...] [Publishing] Top Cow raises “deluxe hardcover” prices by $65… after solicitation Link: Johanna Draper Carlson [...]

Mr Marz- As is so often the case in these kind of discussions, personal taste is playing an important role here- in this case taste in art. The art on those comics is very much not to my taste. As to why, let me put it this way- reading your comment was the first time I realised that the female character in that sex-scene is not the same character we see in the rest of the issue. On a second look- well, actually more like third or fourth look, seeing as I have that book at home, like I said- I realise the fact that she has different colour hair should have tipped me off to that. Unfortunately, since she’s identical in every other way, I didn’t pick up on that.

Of course, if I’d read the words, I’m sure that would have been made clearer. And maybe there’s a reason for their physical similarity- perhaps they’re sisters?

But the point of all this is that, while it’s clear that there are definitely efforts by some creators and other professionals at Top Cow to distance the company from it’s past, it’s pretty obvious that not everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet. It’s depressing to see people with such fine intentions hamstrung by their own colleagues, but that seems to be what’s happening here.

I’m reminded of when one of Top Cow’s marketing people started a thread at Warren Ellis’s engine forum (or it may have been panel & pixel, the two tend to blur together in my appallingly bad memory) asking what the professionals present thought the company could do to raise it’s profile, and was rewarded with a chorus of “ditch the cheesecake”. The poor fella (whose name escapes me at present, though I remember that he seemed like a nice guy) retreated into the seemingly stock position that “we already did!”, but the fact remains that the impression people have of the company is based as much on the current output as it is on the early stuff. Sure, if you dig deeper, there may be more to the work than there used to be- but if it still looks like the same product, why should readers be expected not to think it’s anything else?

Maybe someone in editorial needs to have a word with the artists, and perhaps point out that not every image of a nude or semi-nude woman needs to have her chest or behind clearly visible- especially if it’s in a scene that’s meant to be imparting an important plot or character point. Maybe Creators need to make a bit more noise about the way their work is presented and marketed (hell, I don’t work there, maybe you have stand up arguments about it every day, I don’t know).

I have no problem with sexy, profane, violent stories- in fact, I tend to enjoy them. My own work is both violent and somewhat profane. It’s the presentation that matters here- a great story is a great story, but a great story told in an irritating voice is still unlistenable.

I want to thank you, though, for even having this conversation with me. It must be tempting to write every dissenting or critical voice off on principle, especially when working for a company who has been so maligned, and I wouldn’t blame you for doing so. Please believe me when I say that my comments are given in the spirit of constructive criticism, since I’d love to see more of the smaller companies and imprints grow in market share, particularly those that are producing material in genres outside of the traditional super-hero furrow. This industry needs more diversity of populist material, and Top Cow could be very well placed to provide that.

Anyway, thank you for reading. Sorry I’ve rambled so much.

Also, sorry for taking so much space in your comments section, Johanna!

I insist that you DO NOT change the title.

As you have mentioned in the past, it is a takeoff on the old Letterman Stupid Human Tricks, with the emphasis on Stupid Tricks, not on Stupid Publishers.

And if some publishers can’t see that, maybe they are a bit dumb.

Back to the main subject, publishers need to get their act together and get the submissions to Diamond Previews properly in the first place. This constant changing of solicitations every week (take a look at the list of changes in Diamond Dateline each week) makes busy-work for retailers, most of whom have enough work as it is just trying to keep their stores open. How many hours a year are they wasting communicating with their customers concerning the latest changes? Which books are late? Which upcoming books will have extra pages added at the last minute causing a price increase? Which variant covers have been added/cancelled/ had artist changes? Which books have title changes? Which books have character changes? The list seems to go on and on.

Publishers, stop making it so hard for retailers. Retailers are your friends.

As for Top Cow’s output… it seemed back in the late ’90s, a lot of imprints that were formerly known for either mindless action or T&A started recruiting some interesting writers on innovative projects (Ellis and Millar on Wildstorm’s Authority, Straczynski on Top Cow’s Rising Stars and Midnight Nation, Bendis on TMP’s Hellspawn and Sam & Twitch). But when Marvel snatched them up, it seemed like most of these imprints retreated back into just trying to revive/maintain their existing properties.

Whenever the publisher or my mail order service offers a special, I sample these revamps/relaunches… Witchblade, Broken Trinity, whatever. No disrespect intended to Mr. Marz, who I grew up reading on Silver Surfer, or any of the writers involved in these revamps, but I have found every single one of these comics forgettable. I really think the limitations come in the subject matter; the publisher knows that the majority of people buying a Witchblade comic want to read about a babe kicking ass. So a talented writer like Mr. Marz can do his best to inject characterization and subplots, but thematically it can never stray too far from that.

I wrote the sex scene you mentioned as part of the story, showing a character making what is ultimately a bad choice in trusting the wrong man. People are often naked when they have sex, so I thought it was more honest to show it — though there is no frontal nudity — than be coy about it.

You cited the things you found to be, I guess, “blatant objectification.” But you didn’t bother to mention that the main character wears a jacket and knee-length skirt through the entire WB issue. Certainly your taste is your own, but I think you’re cherrying-picking a little bit here.

That said, I truly appreciate your feedback, and I appreciate that you’ve at least looked through the material. I hope you’ll actually give it a read as well. Thanks for the time.

Am I completely happy with all the covers? No. But that’s not something completely within my control. What I can control is the story content, and to be honest, the main characters wear considerably more clothing — like full body armor — than most Marvel and DC heroines. More often than not, the lead character is dressed as what she is — a NYPD detective.

To be fair, it’s a mature readers title, so there is some nudity, as well as language and violence, but they’re all elements of the story, and present for story reasons. It’s certainly not for everyone, but it’s also certainly not what it used to be.