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	<title>Comments on: Digital Manga Asks Fans to Pre-Purchase for Advance Yaoi Copies</title>
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	<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2009/06/12/digital-manga-asks-fans-to-pre-purchase-for-advance-yaoi-copies/</link>
	<description>Independent Opinions on Comics of All Kinds</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 02:42:01 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Digital&#8217;s &#8217;secret project&#8217;: If you can&#8217;t lick &#8216;em, join &#8216;em &#124; Robot 6 @ Comic Book Resources &#8211; Covering Comic Book News and Entertainment</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2009/06/12/digital-manga-asks-fans-to-pre-purchase-for-advance-yaoi-copies/comment-page-1/#comment-112301</link>
		<dc:creator>Digital&#8217;s &#8217;secret project&#8217;: If you can&#8217;t lick &#8216;em, join &#8216;em &#124; Robot 6 @ Comic Book Resources &#8211; Covering Comic Book News and Entertainment</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 18:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=7349#comment-112301</guid>
		<description>[...] marginal titles. Digital is a small company and they have tried a few things in the past, such as asking fans to pre-order a book to speed up its release. Regardless of the merits of his latest idea (and it&#039;s a mixed bag, [...]</description>
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<p>[...] marginal titles. Digital is a small company and they have tried a few things in the past, such as asking fans to pre-order a book to speed up its release. Regardless of the merits of his latest idea (and it&#39;s a mixed bag, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MangaBlog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Digital and Vertical reps talk, Last Gasp to publish Maruo manga</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2009/06/12/digital-manga-asks-fans-to-pre-purchase-for-advance-yaoi-copies/comment-page-1/#comment-104582</link>
		<dc:creator>MangaBlog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Digital and Vertical reps talk, Last Gasp to publish Maruo manga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=7349#comment-104582</guid>
		<description>[...] Vice, Gia talks to Digital&#8217;s Michelle Mauk about their pre-order plan. Johanna Draper Carlson weighs in as well at Comics Worth Reading, and Alex Hoffman gives his take at Manga [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="padding: 1em; background-color: #FEF1B5;">
<p>[...] Vice, Gia talks to Digital&#8217;s Michelle Mauk about their pre-order plan. Johanna Draper Carlson weighs in as well at Comics Worth Reading, and Alex Hoffman gives his take at Manga [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DMP&#8217;s Big Gamble &#171; Manga Widget</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2009/06/12/digital-manga-asks-fans-to-pre-purchase-for-advance-yaoi-copies/comment-page-1/#comment-104540</link>
		<dc:creator>DMP&#8217;s Big Gamble &#171; Manga Widget</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 04:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=7349#comment-104540</guid>
		<description>[...] could happen as much as a quarter (4 months) ealier than expected.Ã‚Â  Johanna at Comics Worth Reading wondered if Paypal is going to be a dealbreaker for the publisher&#8217;s book printing, but I have a few thoughts to the [...]</description>
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<p>[...] could happen as much as a quarter (4 months) ealier than expected.Ã‚Â  Johanna at Comics Worth Reading wondered if Paypal is going to be a dealbreaker for the publisher&#8217;s book printing, but I have a few thoughts to the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2009/06/12/digital-manga-asks-fans-to-pre-purchase-for-advance-yaoi-copies/comment-page-1/#comment-104513</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 09:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=7349#comment-104513</guid>
		<description>Many small wargame companies also have pre-order policies. One example is GMT Games&#039; P500, where buyers pledge to buy a game (there is no prepayment) that is only published once 500 pledges are reached. Each pledgee&#039;s credit card details are on record with GMT, although prior to actual notification of the charging a pledge can be withdrawn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many small wargame companies also have pre-order policies. One example is GMT Games&#8217; P500, where buyers pledge to buy a game (there is no prepayment) that is only published once 500 pledges are reached. Each pledgee&#8217;s credit card details are on record with GMT, although prior to actual notification of the charging a pledge can be withdrawn.</p>
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		<title>By: Tina</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2009/06/12/digital-manga-asks-fans-to-pre-purchase-for-advance-yaoi-copies/comment-page-1/#comment-104509</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 03:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=7349#comment-104509</guid>
		<description>Sure - but there&#039;s a bit of strangeness going on - so this is likely the best link to get the info from:

http://tinyurl.com/lwe555</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure &#8211; but there&#8217;s a bit of strangeness going on &#8211; so this is likely the best link to get the info from:</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/lwe555" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/lwe555</a></p>
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		<title>By: Vicky S.</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2009/06/12/digital-manga-asks-fans-to-pre-purchase-for-advance-yaoi-copies/comment-page-1/#comment-104507</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicky S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 23:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=7349#comment-104507</guid>
		<description>@Tina - oh really? I hadn&#039;t heard that Digital Manga was breaking their contract with Diamond. Do you have a link?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tina &#8211; oh really? I hadn&#8217;t heard that Digital Manga was breaking their contract with Diamond. Do you have a link?</p>
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		<title>By: Tina</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2009/06/12/digital-manga-asks-fans-to-pre-purchase-for-advance-yaoi-copies/comment-page-1/#comment-104505</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=7349#comment-104505</guid>
		<description>@Vicky 

I don&#039;t think Digital Manga is going anywhere because this is the second move on DMP&#039;s part [breaking exclusivity with Diamond most recent] that shows Digital Manga trying to scale back sensibly when it comes to &#039;editions&#039; that aren&#039;t their biggest sellers.  This looks to me like they&#039;re trying to avoid doing away with BL Novels by allowing fans of those BL novels [they are just a small part of the overall BL fandom here] to determine what they want to read and what June should release.  A Pre-order program is the best way to do this, because polls are no way to determine how much money you should spend on a print run, and what you should license.

:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Vicky </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Digital Manga is going anywhere because this is the second move on DMP&#8217;s part [breaking exclusivity with Diamond most recent] that shows Digital Manga trying to scale back sensibly when it comes to &#8216;editions&#8217; that aren&#8217;t their biggest sellers.  This looks to me like they&#8217;re trying to avoid doing away with BL Novels by allowing fans of those BL novels [they are just a small part of the overall BL fandom here] to determine what they want to read and what June should release.  A Pre-order program is the best way to do this, because polls are no way to determine how much money you should spend on a print run, and what you should license.</p>
<p>:)</p>
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		<title>By: Vicky S.</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2009/06/12/digital-manga-asks-fans-to-pre-purchase-for-advance-yaoi-copies/comment-page-1/#comment-104503</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicky S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=7349#comment-104503</guid>
		<description>@Tina... I think the pre-ordered or made-to-order policy is for eBay only.(I think) PayPal has different policies for companies who sell products through their websites. And there are US laws that prohibit companies charging people&#039;s credit cards for goods more than 30 days before they ship.

I&#039;m just wondering what happens to those payments if for any reason Digital Manga goes out of business? 4-7 months is an awfully long time in an economic period where the manga industry in general is not doing well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tina&#8230; I think the pre-ordered or made-to-order policy is for eBay only.(I think) PayPal has different policies for companies who sell products through their websites. And there are US laws that prohibit companies charging people&#8217;s credit cards for goods more than 30 days before they ship.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m just wondering what happens to those payments if for any reason Digital Manga goes out of business? 4-7 months is an awfully long time in an economic period where the manga industry in general is not doing well.</p>
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		<title>By: Tina</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2009/06/12/digital-manga-asks-fans-to-pre-purchase-for-advance-yaoi-copies/comment-page-1/#comment-104502</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=7349#comment-104502</guid>
		<description>UPDATE: Just got an email from friend - there&#039;s been some changes to Paypal&#039;s Seller requirement in regard to Rule 11 - at .4 it no longer states only: &quot;You must ship the item within 7 days of receipt of payment.&quot;  It now says:

&quot;You must ship the item within 7 days of receipt of payment. Or, if the payment is for pre-ordered or made-to-order goods, shipment is required within the timeframe specified in your item listing.&quot;

:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UPDATE: Just got an email from friend &#8211; there&#8217;s been some changes to Paypal&#8217;s Seller requirement in regard to Rule 11 &#8211; at .4 it no longer states only: &#8220;You must ship the item within 7 days of receipt of payment.&#8221;  It now says:</p>
<p>&#8220;You must ship the item within 7 days of receipt of payment. Or, if the payment is for pre-ordered or made-to-order goods, shipment is required within the timeframe specified in your item listing.&#8221;</p>
<p>:)</p>
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		<title>By: Tina</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2009/06/12/digital-manga-asks-fans-to-pre-purchase-for-advance-yaoi-copies/comment-page-1/#comment-104499</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=7349#comment-104499</guid>
		<description>@Vicky  Good point.

I read their post carefully - it&#039;s worded carefully.  I suspect that when you pay for this using paypal, you&#039;re paying for membership in &#039;the program&#039;. 

It&#039;s likely each title up for order will be listed as a &#039;[title]program&#039; and that you&#039;re paypal purchase will be processed as a &#039;membership&#039; [or something like this]; because they say once the &#039;membership goal&#039; [amount needed] is reached, then the title goes to print and members will be rewarded for your membership with &#039;THIS TITLE&#039;, early.

I&#039;m not an employee of DMP, so I can&#039;t speak for them - but I know my way around &#039;ze paypal&#039;.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Vicky  Good point.</p>
<p>I read their post carefully &#8211; it&#8217;s worded carefully.  I suspect that when you pay for this using paypal, you&#8217;re paying for membership in &#8216;the program&#8217;. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s likely each title up for order will be listed as a &#8216;[title]program&#8217; and that you&#8217;re paypal purchase will be processed as a &#8216;membership&#8217; [or something like this]; because they say once the &#8216;membership goal&#8217; [amount needed] is reached, then the title goes to print and members will be rewarded for your membership with &#8216;THIS TITLE&#8217;, early.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not an employee of DMP, so I can&#8217;t speak for them &#8211; but I know my way around &#8216;ze paypal&#8217;.  :)</p>
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		<title>By: Vicky S.</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2009/06/12/digital-manga-asks-fans-to-pre-purchase-for-advance-yaoi-copies/comment-page-1/#comment-104498</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicky S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=7349#comment-104498</guid>
		<description>DMI is offering a novel for sale, so that doesn&#039;t violate PayPal&#039;s TOS because novels don&#039;t fall into those &quot;adult materials&quot; categories. What DOES violate PayPal&#039;s TOS is the fact that DMI is taking money for something that doesn&#039;t exist yet. According to PayPal&#039;s Acceptable Use Policy, #3d: You may not use the PayPal service for activities that: relate to transactions that (d) are for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item. That includes pre-orders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DMI is offering a novel for sale, so that doesn&#8217;t violate PayPal&#8217;s TOS because novels don&#8217;t fall into those &#8220;adult materials&#8221; categories. What DOES violate PayPal&#8217;s TOS is the fact that DMI is taking money for something that doesn&#8217;t exist yet. According to PayPal&#8217;s Acceptable Use Policy, #3d: You may not use the PayPal service for activities that: relate to transactions that (d) are for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item. That includes pre-orders.</p>
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		<title>By: Tina</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2009/06/12/digital-manga-asks-fans-to-pre-purchase-for-advance-yaoi-copies/comment-page-1/#comment-104496</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=7349#comment-104496</guid>
		<description>I think this might stem from trust issues; BL fen aren&#039;t happy these days about the state of licensed BL and one publisher in particular that&#039;s ignored and outright abandoned them.   I think playing the &#039;fandom&#039;s publisher&#039; card is pretty slick.

Asking for &#039;production cost help&#039; has been a staple of fan-book makers for years [if you want your Naruto fanbook - please pre-pay or they don&#039;t get printed]; it&#039;s easy to be upfront with fellow fans about the accounting of it all, because that&#039;s what doujinshika are--fellow fans with the talent to make comics.  It&#039;s not considered unpro behavior because you&#039;re a fan making fan-books for other fans. How BL fen will take a &#039;pro publisher&#039; doing this, will be interesting to see.

Now the only problem I see is Paypal.  

While it is one of the most common ways fen get their doujinshi and manga from Ebay, from a creators perspective - they have this very strange &#039;no selling of adult material&#039; clause, in which they can effectively shut down an account even if there are funds in it, without offering a refund to the account holder--for violation of this rule.  This rule and how they enforce it has always been around--making paypal a minefield for doujinshi makers.  I know we [and other doujinski makers] were always aware of it, but we got around it--and one way to do that was by not announcing &#039;hey buy our yaoi books using paypal&#039;.  :/   Many creators sold exclusively on eBay in order to get around paypal&#039;s TOS rule because technically you&#039;re charging for an &#039;auction sale&#039;; but eBay changed their &#039;buy now&#039; listing rules [limiting them severely unless you purchase a storefront account] which affected how doujinshika could list their books.

I suspect that DMP/JUNE is just selling &#039;pre-orders&#039; via paypal, and not the actual books?  You&#039;re buying a &#039;pre-order slot&#039; through paypal - not the actual yaoi manga--which would violate Paypal&#039;s TOS?  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this might stem from trust issues; BL fen aren&#8217;t happy these days about the state of licensed BL and one publisher in particular that&#8217;s ignored and outright abandoned them.   I think playing the &#8216;fandom&#8217;s publisher&#8217; card is pretty slick.</p>
<p>Asking for &#8216;production cost help&#8217; has been a staple of fan-book makers for years [if you want your Naruto fanbook - please pre-pay or they don't get printed]; it&#8217;s easy to be upfront with fellow fans about the accounting of it all, because that&#8217;s what doujinshika are&#8211;fellow fans with the talent to make comics.  It&#8217;s not considered unpro behavior because you&#8217;re a fan making fan-books for other fans. How BL fen will take a &#8216;pro publisher&#8217; doing this, will be interesting to see.</p>
<p>Now the only problem I see is Paypal.  </p>
<p>While it is one of the most common ways fen get their doujinshi and manga from Ebay, from a creators perspective &#8211; they have this very strange &#8216;no selling of adult material&#8217; clause, in which they can effectively shut down an account even if there are funds in it, without offering a refund to the account holder&#8211;for violation of this rule.  This rule and how they enforce it has always been around&#8211;making paypal a minefield for doujinshi makers.  I know we [and other doujinski makers] were always aware of it, but we got around it&#8211;and one way to do that was by not announcing &#8216;hey buy our yaoi books using paypal&#8217;.  :/   Many creators sold exclusively on eBay in order to get around paypal&#8217;s TOS rule because technically you&#8217;re charging for an &#8216;auction sale&#8217;; but eBay changed their &#8216;buy now&#8217; listing rules [limiting them severely unless you purchase a storefront account] which affected how doujinshika could list their books.</p>
<p>I suspect that DMP/JUNE is just selling &#8216;pre-orders&#8217; via paypal, and not the actual books?  You&#8217;re buying a &#8216;pre-order slot&#8217; through paypal &#8211; not the actual yaoi manga&#8211;which would violate Paypal&#8217;s TOS?  :)</p>
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		<title>By: David Oakes</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2009/06/12/digital-manga-asks-fans-to-pre-purchase-for-advance-yaoi-copies/comment-page-1/#comment-104495</link>
		<dc:creator>David Oakes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=7349#comment-104495</guid>
		<description>The &quot;Hostage&quot; model, where the book is released when the number of pre-orders meets minimum print run, is also pretty common among small Role-Playing Game companies and self-published SF/Fantasy authors.  The communities have always been pretty tight, going back to ARPAs and Fanzines, but the addition of PayPal has made it (conceptually) easier to through money at it than time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;Hostage&#8221; model, where the book is released when the number of pre-orders meets minimum print run, is also pretty common among small Role-Playing Game companies and self-published SF/Fantasy authors.  The communities have always been pretty tight, going back to ARPAs and Fanzines, but the addition of PayPal has made it (conceptually) easier to through money at it than time.</p>
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		<title>By: Johanna</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2009/06/12/digital-manga-asks-fans-to-pre-purchase-for-advance-yaoi-copies/comment-page-1/#comment-104490</link>
		<dc:creator>Johanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:02:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=7349#comment-104490</guid>
		<description>Oh, that&#039;s neat to know. I wasn&#039;t aware it was so common in that fandom. It&#039;s rare to see a widespread trust-based activity these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, that&#8217;s neat to know. I wasn&#8217;t aware it was so common in that fandom. It&#8217;s rare to see a widespread trust-based activity these days.</p>
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		<title>By: Tina</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2009/06/12/digital-manga-asks-fans-to-pre-purchase-for-advance-yaoi-copies/comment-page-1/#comment-104488</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=7349#comment-104488</guid>
		<description>This is how many American doujinshika have always been able to sell their books - offer pre-orders to collect print costs and then send off the books when they arrive.

This isn&#039;t a new concept at all to Yaoi fans.  :)  I must admit, seeing it coming from a publisher is a bit strange - but times are tight?  They know the fandom is familiar with this sort of sales-method, and so they&#039;re not hoisting something alien on to them.

^_^v</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is how many American doujinshika have always been able to sell their books &#8211; offer pre-orders to collect print costs and then send off the books when they arrive.</p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t a new concept at all to Yaoi fans.  :)  I must admit, seeing it coming from a publisher is a bit strange &#8211; but times are tight?  They know the fandom is familiar with this sort of sales-method, and so they&#8217;re not hoisting something alien on to them.</p>
<p>^_^v</p>
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