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	<title>Comments on: Archie Exhibit Rewrites History; Did MoCCA Know?</title>
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	<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/01/08/archie-exhibit-rewrites-history-did-mocca-know/</link>
	<description>Independent Opinions on Comics of All Kinds</description>
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		<title>By: Why Do Archie Digests Still Not Have Full Credits? &#187; Comics Worth Reading</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/01/08/archie-exhibit-rewrites-history-did-mocca-know/comment-page-1/#comment-114428</link>
		<dc:creator>Why Do Archie Digests Still Not Have Full Credits? &#187; Comics Worth Reading</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 11:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=10169#comment-114428</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the beginning of this year, there was some confusion over the question of artist credits in Archie comics, due to a glitch with labels at an art exhibit at MoCCA. In responding to the discussion, Archie [...]]]></description>
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<p>[...] the beginning of this year, there was some confusion over the question of artist credits in Archie comics, due to a glitch with labels at an art exhibit at MoCCA. In responding to the discussion, Archie [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Johanna</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/01/08/archie-exhibit-rewrites-history-did-mocca-know/comment-page-1/#comment-108397</link>
		<dc:creator>Johanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 21:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=10169#comment-108397</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m sorry to disappoint you. I do remove (or in your case, edit) comments that are disrespectful to other people. People can say what they want all over the internet -- I require a certain level of civility here on my site.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry to disappoint you. I do remove (or in your case, edit) comments that are disrespectful to other people. People can say what they want all over the internet &#8212; I require a certain level of civility here on my site.</p>
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		<title>By: archie bunker</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/01/08/archie-exhibit-rewrites-history-did-mocca-know/comment-page-1/#comment-108396</link>
		<dc:creator>archie bunker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=10169#comment-108396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I read the statement from the Museum above --- I do not interpret that line with the word regret - as an apology. It&#039;s like saying ---- It is unfortunate that the wall cards were not available when the show opened.

And for the record - we disagree on the importance of the wall cards.  Again - the issue here is on the form of attribution - not whether the attributions were given.  Nadel seems to accuse the museum that they do not care about attributions.  He is focused on the wrong thing - and that accusation it seems is misguide s it is wrong.

[Insults to Nadel deleted]

and by the way - I appreciate the fact that you do NOT censor your comments. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the statement from the Museum above &#8212; I do not interpret that line with the word regret &#8211; as an apology. It&#8217;s like saying &#8212;- It is unfortunate that the wall cards were not available when the show opened.</p>
<p>And for the record &#8211; we disagree on the importance of the wall cards.  Again &#8211; the issue here is on the form of attribution &#8211; not whether the attributions were given.  Nadel seems to accuse the museum that they do not care about attributions.  He is focused on the wrong thing &#8211; and that accusation it seems is misguide s it is wrong.</p>
<p>[Insults to Nadel deleted]</p>
<p>and by the way &#8211; I appreciate the fact that you do NOT censor your comments. </p>
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		<title>By: Johanna</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/01/08/archie-exhibit-rewrites-history-did-mocca-know/comment-page-1/#comment-108395</link>
		<dc:creator>Johanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=10169#comment-108395</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[An organization saying twice &quot;we regret&quot; is as close to an apology as businesses come these days. 

I think clear credits is a basic must in displaying art. You disagree? Fine. As you said, &quot;your opinion ... is not deemed correct by everyone.&quot; 

And your continuing attacks on Mr. Nadel -- whom I&#039;ve never met, as far as I know, so I wouldn&#039;t presume to call him friend -- reflect more on you than him.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An organization saying twice &#8220;we regret&#8221; is as close to an apology as businesses come these days. </p>
<p>I think clear credits is a basic must in displaying art. You disagree? Fine. As you said, &#8220;your opinion &#8230; is not deemed correct by everyone.&#8221; </p>
<p>And your continuing attacks on Mr. Nadel &#8212; whom I&#8217;ve never met, as far as I know, so I wouldn&#8217;t presume to call him friend &#8212; reflect more on you than him.</p>
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		<title>By: archie bunker</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/01/08/archie-exhibit-rewrites-history-did-mocca-know/comment-page-1/#comment-108394</link>
		<dc:creator>archie bunker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 19:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=10169#comment-108394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Johanna,
Actually - my real name is Archibald - but my last name is not Bunker.

I am not sure that I saw the full release from MoCCA, but I did not get the impression they apologized - I thought they explained the situation and said they believe fully in attributions.  

Your comment about distinguishing between handouts and wall credits is exactly the problem I am referring to. Frankly - you have no right to demand wall credits. Any institution has the right to display art, and information, anyway they deem fit.  what you are suggesting is something similar to complaining that you didnt like the arrangement of the work and they should have been exhibited in a different order.  Many museums DO NOT put up labels - but provide the information on other ways.  It is a question of aesthetics.  There was a similar comment somewhere from someone named Beauregard that said a similar thing.

You are focused on the hole and not the donut.  Your opinion is your opinion - but it is not deemed correct by everyone.  Different strokes .......

Mr. Nadel is a childish fool who seems to only know how to criticize MoCCA, and anyone else that is not part of his vision of the world.  I still believe the Mazz show was great - but his writings werent so good.  I heard he had to beg MoCCA to curate that show, which is why he is now on their case.  And his Brooklyn show might as well have been held in a 2-car garage from what I could tell - yet he has told everyone he has done a better job than MoCCA ! Who is he kidding??  Nadel is only out for his own glory  - which to him is the same as a glory hole.  Anyone who is simply not his friend can read him like an open comic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Johanna,<br />
Actually &#8211; my real name is Archibald &#8211; but my last name is not Bunker.</p>
<p>I am not sure that I saw the full release from MoCCA, but I did not get the impression they apologized &#8211; I thought they explained the situation and said they believe fully in attributions.  </p>
<p>Your comment about distinguishing between handouts and wall credits is exactly the problem I am referring to. Frankly &#8211; you have no right to demand wall credits. Any institution has the right to display art, and information, anyway they deem fit.  what you are suggesting is something similar to complaining that you didnt like the arrangement of the work and they should have been exhibited in a different order.  Many museums DO NOT put up labels &#8211; but provide the information on other ways.  It is a question of aesthetics.  There was a similar comment somewhere from someone named Beauregard that said a similar thing.</p>
<p>You are focused on the hole and not the donut.  Your opinion is your opinion &#8211; but it is not deemed correct by everyone.  Different strokes &#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>Mr. Nadel is a childish fool who seems to only know how to criticize MoCCA, and anyone else that is not part of his vision of the world.  I still believe the Mazz show was great &#8211; but his writings werent so good.  I heard he had to beg MoCCA to curate that show, which is why he is now on their case.  And his Brooklyn show might as well have been held in a 2-car garage from what I could tell &#8211; yet he has told everyone he has done a better job than MoCCA ! Who is he kidding??  Nadel is only out for his own glory  &#8211; which to him is the same as a glory hole.  Anyone who is simply not his friend can read him like an open comic.</p>
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		<title>By: Johanna</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/01/08/archie-exhibit-rewrites-history-did-mocca-know/comment-page-1/#comment-108391</link>
		<dc:creator>Johanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=10169#comment-108391</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The difference between a handout and wall credits is that the latter is immediately obvious to the viewer, while the former has to be sought out. 

And attacking Mr. Nadel for bringing the problem to public view, a problem that the museum has apologized for, is tacky and irrelevant. Especially from someone unwilling to sign their real name.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difference between a handout and wall credits is that the latter is immediately obvious to the viewer, while the former has to be sought out. </p>
<p>And attacking Mr. Nadel for bringing the problem to public view, a problem that the museum has apologized for, is tacky and irrelevant. Especially from someone unwilling to sign their real name.</p>
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		<title>By: archie bunker</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/01/08/archie-exhibit-rewrites-history-did-mocca-know/comment-page-1/#comment-108390</link>
		<dc:creator>archie bunker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=10169#comment-108390</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Read Ms. Abromowitz&#039;s note.  The credits were handed out the day the show opened.  What difference does it make if they were on handouts or on the wall?  Many museums use handouts.

It seems Nadel did not do his research and never took the time to re-visit the sho to see for himself.  I guess he is too busy selling books.

There are other motives here I believe for Nadel.  Everyone should be aware of that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read Ms. Abromowitz&#8217;s note.  The credits were handed out the day the show opened.  What difference does it make if they were on handouts or on the wall?  Many museums use handouts.</p>
<p>It seems Nadel did not do his research and never took the time to re-visit the sho to see for himself.  I guess he is too busy selling books.</p>
<p>There are other motives here I believe for Nadel.  Everyone should be aware of that.</p>
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		<title>By: THE BEAT &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Archie CEO talks MoCCA and creator credits</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/01/08/archie-exhibit-rewrites-history-did-mocca-know/comment-page-1/#comment-108361</link>
		<dc:creator>THE BEAT &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Archie CEO talks MoCCA and creator credits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 17:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=10169#comment-108361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Nadel&#8217;s post brought immediate and justified support from Tom Spurgeon, Dirk Deppey and Johanna Carlson. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="padding: 1em; background-color: #FEF1B5;">
<p>[...] Nadel&#8217;s post brought immediate and justified support from Tom Spurgeon, Dirk Deppey and Johanna Carlson. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MoCCA Rep Responds to Archie Comic Exhibit Criticism &#187; Comics Worth Reading</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/01/08/archie-exhibit-rewrites-history-did-mocca-know/comment-page-1/#comment-108334</link>
		<dc:creator>MoCCA Rep Responds to Archie Comic Exhibit Criticism &#187; Comics Worth Reading</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=10169#comment-108334</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] a comment posted to my post about the question of artist credits at the MoCCA Archie Comics exhibit, Ellen Abramowitz, a member of the MoCCA Board of Trustees and one of the exhibit creators, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="padding: 1em; background-color: #FEF1B5;">
<p>[...] a comment posted to my post about the question of artist credits at the MoCCA Archie Comics exhibit, Ellen Abramowitz, a member of the MoCCA Board of Trustees and one of the exhibit creators, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Johanna</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/01/08/archie-exhibit-rewrites-history-did-mocca-know/comment-page-1/#comment-108333</link>
		<dc:creator>Johanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=10169#comment-108333</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you very much for clarifying that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you very much for clarifying that.</p>
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		<title>By: Ellen Abramowitz</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/01/08/archie-exhibit-rewrites-history-did-mocca-know/comment-page-1/#comment-108332</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellen Abramowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=10169#comment-108332</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Museum of Comic and Cartoon Art believes strongly in creators&#039; rights, particularly the right of artists to be credited for their work. Due to a logistical snafu we regret, when THE ART OF ARCHIE opened the wall cards had not been completed. Instead, we presented visitors with handouts that provided, among other information, the name of each piece and named the artist(s) who created it. Fortunately, a few weeks after the opening the cards identifying each piece and each artist arrived and went up on the walls, and the use of handouts was discontinued. 

We invited Mr. Nadel to come to discuss his issues with the show with us in the gallery, in part so he could see for himself that this was true, but as he said in his blog post, his schedule seems to have prevented him from attending such a meeting. 

It&#039;s our policy as a museum to give proper credit to every piece of art on our walls. We regret the wall cards not being finished closer to the actual opening of the show, and resorting to the necessity of handouts, but they are up there now and will have been there for the majority of the time the show was open to the public.
We thank the comics community for their understanding and continued support.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Museum of Comic and Cartoon Art believes strongly in creators&#8217; rights, particularly the right of artists to be credited for their work. Due to a logistical snafu we regret, when THE ART OF ARCHIE opened the wall cards had not been completed. Instead, we presented visitors with handouts that provided, among other information, the name of each piece and named the artist(s) who created it. Fortunately, a few weeks after the opening the cards identifying each piece and each artist arrived and went up on the walls, and the use of handouts was discontinued. </p>
<p>We invited Mr. Nadel to come to discuss his issues with the show with us in the gallery, in part so he could see for himself that this was true, but as he said in his blog post, his schedule seems to have prevented him from attending such a meeting. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s our policy as a museum to give proper credit to every piece of art on our walls. We regret the wall cards not being finished closer to the actual opening of the show, and resorting to the necessity of handouts, but they are up there now and will have been there for the majority of the time the show was open to the public.<br />
We thank the comics community for their understanding and continued support.</p>
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		<title>By: Johanna</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/01/08/archie-exhibit-rewrites-history-did-mocca-know/comment-page-1/#comment-108293</link>
		<dc:creator>Johanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 00:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=10169#comment-108293</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Archie has done the occasional &quot;creator name&quot; push over the past few years, as when they were &lt;a href=&quot;http://comicsworthreading.com/2008/04/15/archie-aims-for-diversity-with-new-writers-characters/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;promoting diversity&lt;/a&gt; or promoting new &lt;a href=&quot;http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/03/29/ask-steven-butler-about-archie-redesign/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;character designs&lt;/a&gt;. But yeah, they&#039;re all about the properties.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Archie has done the occasional &#8220;creator name&#8221; push over the past few years, as when they were <a href="http://comicsworthreading.com/2008/04/15/archie-aims-for-diversity-with-new-writers-characters/" rel="nofollow">promoting diversity</a> or promoting new <a href="http://comicsworthreading.com/2007/03/29/ask-steven-butler-about-archie-redesign/" rel="nofollow">character designs</a>. But yeah, they&#8217;re all about the properties.</p>
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		<title>By: Prankster</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/01/08/archie-exhibit-rewrites-history-did-mocca-know/comment-page-1/#comment-108292</link>
		<dc:creator>Prankster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 23:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=10169#comment-108292</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When Alan Moore has calls out the American comics industry for its &quot;gangster mentality&quot;, this is the kind of thing he&#039;s talking about. Sadly, the whole comics biz was founded by shysters and profiteers...and literal gangsters, in the case of Charleston...and stayed that way for far too many years. It&#039;s kind of ingrained. Say what you will about DC and Marvel, but they at least grew out of (or were dragged, kicking and screaming, away from) the &quot;artist as faceless hack&quot; mentality. Which isn&#039;t to say it doesn&#039;t linger, but Archie, which hasn&#039;t really altered its business model for decades, is the real relic of the bad old days. 

At least fanboys aren&#039;t going to enable this behaviour. They only care about superheroes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Alan Moore has calls out the American comics industry for its &#8220;gangster mentality&#8221;, this is the kind of thing he&#8217;s talking about. Sadly, the whole comics biz was founded by shysters and profiteers&#8230;and literal gangsters, in the case of Charleston&#8230;and stayed that way for far too many years. It&#8217;s kind of ingrained. Say what you will about DC and Marvel, but they at least grew out of (or were dragged, kicking and screaming, away from) the &#8220;artist as faceless hack&#8221; mentality. Which isn&#8217;t to say it doesn&#8217;t linger, but Archie, which hasn&#8217;t really altered its business model for decades, is the real relic of the bad old days. </p>
<p>At least fanboys aren&#8217;t going to enable this behaviour. They only care about superheroes.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah C.</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/01/08/archie-exhibit-rewrites-history-did-mocca-know/comment-page-1/#comment-108288</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 18:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=10169#comment-108288</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s unfortunate that many museums are facing severe budget cuts right now and do have to rely on donors or sponsors in order to be able to continue operating. It&#039;s very tricky dealing with sponsors because it&#039;s very easy for a sponsored exhibit to end up looking like a conflict of interest or, in this case, calling the museum&#039;s credibility into question.

The article says that the exhibit was organized and hosted by MoCCA, but I have to wonder how much corporate meddling was involved.  I wonder if MoCCA actually had little to do with the exhibit other than being a place to display it.  It almost sounds like the exhibit was really organized by the company and then just handed over to MoCCA, so I wonder if that&#039;s why the artwork went unattributed.  It&#039;s a slippery slope for the museum.  Do they just take the show with uncredited art and (hopefully) receive some sort of donation in return?  Or, assuming that the museum staff recognized the lack of attribution, do they dispute this and risk the company walking away with the exhibit and, thus, funding?  Either way it sounds like the museum loses.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s unfortunate that many museums are facing severe budget cuts right now and do have to rely on donors or sponsors in order to be able to continue operating. It&#8217;s very tricky dealing with sponsors because it&#8217;s very easy for a sponsored exhibit to end up looking like a conflict of interest or, in this case, calling the museum&#8217;s credibility into question.</p>
<p>The article says that the exhibit was organized and hosted by MoCCA, but I have to wonder how much corporate meddling was involved.  I wonder if MoCCA actually had little to do with the exhibit other than being a place to display it.  It almost sounds like the exhibit was really organized by the company and then just handed over to MoCCA, so I wonder if that&#8217;s why the artwork went unattributed.  It&#8217;s a slippery slope for the museum.  Do they just take the show with uncredited art and (hopefully) receive some sort of donation in return?  Or, assuming that the museum staff recognized the lack of attribution, do they dispute this and risk the company walking away with the exhibit and, thus, funding?  Either way it sounds like the museum loses.</p>
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		<title>By: Johanna</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/01/08/archie-exhibit-rewrites-history-did-mocca-know/comment-page-1/#comment-108286</link>
		<dc:creator>Johanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 12:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=10169#comment-108286</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some of the greatest art in the world was produced for those funding it, whether patrons or businesses, so I don&#039;t have a problem with that. But wouldn&#039;t it be weird to see the credit &quot;Sistine Chapel ceiling by Pope Whichever&quot; instead of Michelangelo?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of the greatest art in the world was produced for those funding it, whether patrons or businesses, so I don&#8217;t have a problem with that. But wouldn&#8217;t it be weird to see the credit &#8220;Sistine Chapel ceiling by Pope Whichever&#8221; instead of Michelangelo?</p>
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		<title>By: John Mundt, Esq.</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/01/08/archie-exhibit-rewrites-history-did-mocca-know/comment-page-1/#comment-108284</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mundt, Esq.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 07:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=10169#comment-108284</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ugh.  Very disappointing.  Again, it seems like the biggest obstacle in the path of comics being accepted and studied as &quot;Art&quot; is the comics industry itself.  The mere fact that comic books, for whatever else they became, were first products produced for businesses - and a sometimes less than model businesses at that - has tainted the entire medium for any serious overall artistic consideration.  I had an Art teacher who said that comics, even those made purely as self-expression, will never be more than &quot;High Craft.&quot;  Her argument was that any such artwork, for which the very nature of who actually &quot;created&quot; it was subjective, could never be on a par with the &quot;classics.&quot;  After reading this article, I&#039;m starting to think that she was on to something there.  Sigh.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh.  Very disappointing.  Again, it seems like the biggest obstacle in the path of comics being accepted and studied as &#8220;Art&#8221; is the comics industry itself.  The mere fact that comic books, for whatever else they became, were first products produced for businesses &#8211; and a sometimes less than model businesses at that &#8211; has tainted the entire medium for any serious overall artistic consideration.  I had an Art teacher who said that comics, even those made purely as self-expression, will never be more than &#8220;High Craft.&#8221;  Her argument was that any such artwork, for which the very nature of who actually &#8220;created&#8221; it was subjective, could never be on a par with the &#8220;classics.&#8221;  After reading this article, I&#8217;m starting to think that she was on to something there.  Sigh.</p>
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