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	<title>Comments on: DC Spinner Rack: Zatanna 5, Batgirl 14, Justice League Generation Lost 11, Booster Gold 37</title>
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	<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/10/17/dc-spinner-rack-zatanna-5-batgirl-14-justice-league-generation-lost-11-booster-gold-37/</link>
	<description>Independent Opinions on Comics of All Kinds</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 19:20:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Hal Shipman</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/10/17/dc-spinner-rack-zatanna-5-batgirl-14-justice-league-generation-lost-11-booster-gold-37/comment-page-1/#comment-115416</link>
		<dc:creator>Hal Shipman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2010 20:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=15474#comment-115416</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, oh, oh, oh.  I was having the same reaction to GL.  Winick&#039;s involvement was why I was hesitant in the first place, but ended up really loving it at first.  But the last few issues - hadn&#039;t even noticed the change in credits.

&quot;I found Barry Ween a bit too sophomoric for my tastes, and Pedro and Me didn’t need to be a comic — it didn’t have a good integration of image and text.&quot;

I have to admit, I freaking love Barry Ween.  I have read that over and over again and still laugh.  I looked at Pedro for my paper on graphic memoir.  One interesting thing about it is very meta - it&#039;s a memoir largely documenting a (purported) documentary experience.  And unlike the others of the formal, there&#039;s a reasonable expectation that readers of the work actually saw the TV show.  Doesn&#039;t make it good story-telling, though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, oh, oh, oh.  I was having the same reaction to GL.  Winick&#8217;s involvement was why I was hesitant in the first place, but ended up really loving it at first.  But the last few issues &#8211; hadn&#8217;t even noticed the change in credits.</p>
<p>&#8220;I found Barry Ween a bit too sophomoric for my tastes, and Pedro and Me didn’t need to be a comic — it didn’t have a good integration of image and text.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have to admit, I freaking love Barry Ween.  I have read that over and over again and still laugh.  I looked at Pedro for my paper on graphic memoir.  One interesting thing about it is very meta &#8211; it&#8217;s a memoir largely documenting a (purported) documentary experience.  And unlike the others of the formal, there&#8217;s a reasonable expectation that readers of the work actually saw the TV show.  Doesn&#8217;t make it good story-telling, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Johanna</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/10/17/dc-spinner-rack-zatanna-5-batgirl-14-justice-league-generation-lost-11-booster-gold-37/comment-page-1/#comment-115406</link>
		<dc:creator>Johanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2010 12:19:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=15474#comment-115406</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, that&#039;s the problem with criticizing Pedro -- it&#039;s such a touching true-life tale that people overreact to pointing out it wasn&#039;t a very good use of the medium. And I can certainly see why people liked Barry Ween; it just didn&#039;t match my sense of humor, but it&#039;s a neat concept with lots of potential. 

I liked Road Trip too! It&#039;s such a quiet little story, though -- no high concept, no brand hook -- that it&#039;s no wonder it got overlooked. 

As for David, well, there are always people who mistake criticism of the work for criticism of the person. I don&#039;t pretend to know the details of what really happened behind-the-scenes ... all I know is that the early issues felt like the Giffen work I enjoyed back on Justice League, and these recent ones have none of the same appeal to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that&#8217;s the problem with criticizing Pedro &#8212; it&#8217;s such a touching true-life tale that people overreact to pointing out it wasn&#8217;t a very good use of the medium. And I can certainly see why people liked Barry Ween; it just didn&#8217;t match my sense of humor, but it&#8217;s a neat concept with lots of potential. </p>
<p>I liked Road Trip too! It&#8217;s such a quiet little story, though &#8212; no high concept, no brand hook &#8212; that it&#8217;s no wonder it got overlooked. </p>
<p>As for David, well, there are always people who mistake criticism of the work for criticism of the person. I don&#8217;t pretend to know the details of what really happened behind-the-scenes &#8230; all I know is that the early issues felt like the Giffen work I enjoyed back on Justice League, and these recent ones have none of the same appeal to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Argo Plummer</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/10/17/dc-spinner-rack-zatanna-5-batgirl-14-justice-league-generation-lost-11-booster-gold-37/comment-page-1/#comment-115401</link>
		<dc:creator>Argo Plummer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2010 04:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=15474#comment-115401</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Johanna--Your criticisms of Pedro and Me and Barry Ween are fair and valid.  Pedro and Me&#039;s visual storytelling was static in places and downright amateurish in others, but the story really tugged at my heartstrings so I happily forgave it&#039;s rougher areas.  As for Barry Ween, yes it is sophomoric, but I loved that.  Though I am rapidly approaching 40, I still enjoy a good fart or male anatomy joke.  Different tastes and all.  I  think Barry Ween does a good job of balancing the crude humor with heart and the storytelling was much crisper.  Interestingly, these are not my favorite Judd Winick works though I love them both.  I find his one-shot published by Oni, titled Road Trip (it collects a serialized story originally published in Oni&#039;s anthology title) to be better drama than Pedro and Me--it shouldn&#039;t be too expensive to pick up if you ever find a copy.  As for humor, I prefer the two collections of Winick&#039;s aborted / failed newspaper comic strip Frumpy the Clown.  I believe these were published by Oni as well.  They are probably harder to find, but again worth a look.  They sit proudly on my bookshelf next to my Calvin and Hobbes, Peanuts, and Bloom County collections.  BTW, with regards to David&#039;s comment, I think you came across as fair and balanced with regards to your criticisms of Winick as opposed to having issues with him.

David--you probably know this and just got confused, but Giffen would be scripting from Winick&#039;s plots, not the other way around.  :)  While I don&#039;t have JL Generation Lost&#039;s credits memorized, I know Giffen is well known for doing the plotting and breakdowns and having someone else script .  I&#039;m not necessarily saying he was doing that with JL:GL, but if it was the more traditional Giffen set up with his plotting and Winick scripting, then it would make sense that the tone of the book changed when he left and Winick took over the plotting as well.  Just saying...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Johanna&#8211;Your criticisms of Pedro and Me and Barry Ween are fair and valid.  Pedro and Me&#8217;s visual storytelling was static in places and downright amateurish in others, but the story really tugged at my heartstrings so I happily forgave it&#8217;s rougher areas.  As for Barry Ween, yes it is sophomoric, but I loved that.  Though I am rapidly approaching 40, I still enjoy a good fart or male anatomy joke.  Different tastes and all.  I  think Barry Ween does a good job of balancing the crude humor with heart and the storytelling was much crisper.  Interestingly, these are not my favorite Judd Winick works though I love them both.  I find his one-shot published by Oni, titled Road Trip (it collects a serialized story originally published in Oni&#8217;s anthology title) to be better drama than Pedro and Me&#8211;it shouldn&#8217;t be too expensive to pick up if you ever find a copy.  As for humor, I prefer the two collections of Winick&#8217;s aborted / failed newspaper comic strip Frumpy the Clown.  I believe these were published by Oni as well.  They are probably harder to find, but again worth a look.  They sit proudly on my bookshelf next to my Calvin and Hobbes, Peanuts, and Bloom County collections.  BTW, with regards to David&#8217;s comment, I think you came across as fair and balanced with regards to your criticisms of Winick as opposed to having issues with him.</p>
<p>David&#8211;you probably know this and just got confused, but Giffen would be scripting from Winick&#8217;s plots, not the other way around.  :)  While I don&#8217;t have JL Generation Lost&#8217;s credits memorized, I know Giffen is well known for doing the plotting and breakdowns and having someone else script .  I&#8217;m not necessarily saying he was doing that with JL:GL, but if it was the more traditional Giffen set up with his plotting and Winick scripting, then it would make sense that the tone of the book changed when he left and Winick took over the plotting as well.  Just saying&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/10/17/dc-spinner-rack-zatanna-5-batgirl-14-justice-league-generation-lost-11-booster-gold-37/comment-page-1/#comment-115400</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2010 03:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=15474#comment-115400</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow. You don&#039;t like Barry Ween or Pedro and me? Odd. Btw, the general consensus is that Giffen was plotting breakdowns based on winick&#039;s scripts from gen lost #2 and on. The &quot;change over&quot; happened awhile back. Like, from the beginning. I think you just have issues with Winick and not the storytelling.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. You don&#8217;t like Barry Ween or Pedro and me? Odd. Btw, the general consensus is that Giffen was plotting breakdowns based on winick&#8217;s scripts from gen lost #2 and on. The &#8220;change over&#8221; happened awhile back. Like, from the beginning. I think you just have issues with Winick and not the storytelling.</p>
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		<title>By: Johanna</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/10/17/dc-spinner-rack-zatanna-5-batgirl-14-justice-league-generation-lost-11-booster-gold-37/comment-page-1/#comment-115390</link>
		<dc:creator>Johanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Oct 2010 22:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=15474#comment-115390</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I found Barry Ween a bit too sophomoric for my tastes, and Pedro and Me didn&#039;t need to be a comic -- it didn&#039;t have a good integration of image and text.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found Barry Ween a bit too sophomoric for my tastes, and Pedro and Me didn&#8217;t need to be a comic &#8212; it didn&#8217;t have a good integration of image and text.</p>
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		<title>By: Argo Plummer</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/10/17/dc-spinner-rack-zatanna-5-batgirl-14-justice-league-generation-lost-11-booster-gold-37/comment-page-1/#comment-115388</link>
		<dc:creator>Argo Plummer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Oct 2010 22:45:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=15474#comment-115388</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First, I can&#039;t believe we are spending this much time on Judd Winick--anyway, I actually really enjoyed his GL run and about the first half of his Green Arrow run.  I thought his run on Batman was pretty good even though I hated that he brought back Jason Todd.  It was a real love / hate thing--I was enjoying the individual stories but didn&#039;t like the overall story being told.  His Outsiders run was decent at first, but deteriorated pretty quick--though I hate he killed Donna Troy in the mini that led up to that--yeah, it didn&#039;t last, but I still hated it.  Haven&#039;t read his Power Girl or Exiles.  Generation Lost didn&#039;t even keep my interest when Giffen (who is one of my all time favorite creators) was co-writing it and it has gotten worse.  I actually haven&#039;t bought it--I was waiting for trades, but I read the occasional issue in my LCS and I won&#039;t be buying the trade--maybe checking it out from the library eventually if they get it.  Anyway, have you ever read any of Winick&#039;s independent stuff?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, I can&#8217;t believe we are spending this much time on Judd Winick&#8211;anyway, I actually really enjoyed his GL run and about the first half of his Green Arrow run.  I thought his run on Batman was pretty good even though I hated that he brought back Jason Todd.  It was a real love / hate thing&#8211;I was enjoying the individual stories but didn&#8217;t like the overall story being told.  His Outsiders run was decent at first, but deteriorated pretty quick&#8211;though I hate he killed Donna Troy in the mini that led up to that&#8211;yeah, it didn&#8217;t last, but I still hated it.  Haven&#8217;t read his Power Girl or Exiles.  Generation Lost didn&#8217;t even keep my interest when Giffen (who is one of my all time favorite creators) was co-writing it and it has gotten worse.  I actually haven&#8217;t bought it&#8211;I was waiting for trades, but I read the occasional issue in my LCS and I won&#8217;t be buying the trade&#8211;maybe checking it out from the library eventually if they get it.  Anyway, have you ever read any of Winick&#8217;s independent stuff?</p>
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		<title>By: Johanna</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/10/17/dc-spinner-rack-zatanna-5-batgirl-14-justice-league-generation-lost-11-booster-gold-37/comment-page-1/#comment-115387</link>
		<dc:creator>Johanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Oct 2010 19:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=15474#comment-115387</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I used to think Judd Winick&#039;s work couldn&#039;t be as bad as people said, but this run of JL:GL issues (I read the last four, up to #11) was just horrible. To be fair, I rarely like continuity event tie-ins, but I was enjoying the early issues of this one until the changeover.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to think Judd Winick&#8217;s work couldn&#8217;t be as bad as people said, but this run of JL:GL issues (I read the last four, up to #11) was just horrible. To be fair, I rarely like continuity event tie-ins, but I was enjoying the early issues of this one until the changeover.</p>
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		<title>By: Argo Plummer</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/10/17/dc-spinner-rack-zatanna-5-batgirl-14-justice-league-generation-lost-11-booster-gold-37/comment-page-1/#comment-115386</link>
		<dc:creator>Argo Plummer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Oct 2010 18:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=15474#comment-115386</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Johanna,

OK, the world must be about to end, because you and I have agreed on something from the world of comics--superhero comics no less.  It was almost as if I wrote this post--except it was better written and more interesting than if I had done it--to be fair, I don&#039;t read Zatanna--never have found the character interesting, but I appreciate Dini&#039;s skill and how he is portraying a female lead in the male dominated world of the DC Universe (makes me feel like I should read it and support the effort)--but I am loving the new Batgirl series and the Giffen / DeMatteis Booster Gold run while JL Generation Lost has been a major disappointment to me--and I am actually a Judd Winick fan--OK, maybe fan is too strong a word, but I do defend him when he gets badmouthed--some of his mainstream stuff is better than he gets credit for and I have loved his indy stuff--I need more Barry Ween!!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Johanna,</p>
<p>OK, the world must be about to end, because you and I have agreed on something from the world of comics&#8211;superhero comics no less.  It was almost as if I wrote this post&#8211;except it was better written and more interesting than if I had done it&#8211;to be fair, I don&#8217;t read Zatanna&#8211;never have found the character interesting, but I appreciate Dini&#8217;s skill and how he is portraying a female lead in the male dominated world of the DC Universe (makes me feel like I should read it and support the effort)&#8211;but I am loving the new Batgirl series and the Giffen / DeMatteis Booster Gold run while JL Generation Lost has been a major disappointment to me&#8211;and I am actually a Judd Winick fan&#8211;OK, maybe fan is too strong a word, but I do defend him when he gets badmouthed&#8211;some of his mainstream stuff is better than he gets credit for and I have loved his indy stuff&#8211;I need more Barry Ween!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Dwight Williams</title>
		<link>http://comicsworthreading.com/2010/10/17/dc-spinner-rack-zatanna-5-batgirl-14-justice-league-generation-lost-11-booster-gold-37/comment-page-1/#comment-115372</link>
		<dc:creator>Dwight Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Oct 2010 01:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comicsworthreading.com/?p=15474#comment-115372</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not rejecting Magog as a joke. I&#039;ve read too much by now, much of it written by Messrs. Johns and Giffen. 

As for why Giffen broke off from &lt;b&gt;JL: Generation Lost&lt;/b&gt;, I thought that was partly explained by the new &lt;b&gt;LSH Annual&lt;/b&gt; he&#039;s been working on with Paul Levitz.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not rejecting Magog as a joke. I&#8217;ve read too much by now, much of it written by Messrs. Johns and Giffen. </p>
<p>As for why Giffen broke off from <b>JL: Generation Lost</b>, I thought that was partly explained by the new <b>LSH Annual</b> he&#8217;s been working on with Paul Levitz.</p>
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