[...] a followup to my post a couple of weeks back on disappearing ads in comic books, I had the chance to speak with Kris Longo. He’s currently with the Bonfire Agency, a [...]

[...] no, it’s 20 pages of comics, the covers…and no ads. A while back Johanna was wondering what happened to comic book ads, in which it seemed like all the ads in recent Marvel and DC comics were just house ads for other [...]

AK, that’s a good point, about having a standard ad layout size. That’s why Rolling Stone shrunk several years back, to make it easier for advertisers to use the same ads they use in other magazines.

The DC sales packet (for clients) used to claim either a 3x or 5x multiplier, I forget which, based on “pass-along” reading. I suspect, as you say, clients caught on to how few eyeballs they were actually reaching. Especially once you consider how repetitive the viewing is; that is, customers buy much of the line, so sales doesn’t mean reaching different viewers.

DC also used to claim that they were one of the very few reliable ways to reach the young adult male audience. Perhaps, as Rich was kind enough to share from experience, it’s not a group that spends its money elsewhere, so there’s no point in reaching them if they won’t buy.

This is aggravated because every publisher sells ads “line wide”, except for Marvel that also offers a “”Senior line” and “Junior Line” option. This means a full page (the only size sold) interior ad in DC and Marvel costs around $20K. Oh, for the days of Marvel Mart.

Another troubling factor may be the habit of running continued stories. Typically ads have to be placed 2-3 months before they appear and, unless you are a major national ad agency, payment has to accompany the art. This means the advertiser has to wait at least that long for a return on their investment. When we placed ads in comics we found, much to our surprise, that when the ads finally appeared sales would dribble in over as much as several years. We are still getting new customers from ads that ran in Marvel and DC over 4 years ago. My observation is this is because many readers are holding their comics until the story line is complete before they read them.

We simply cannot afford to wait that long for a return on our advertising investment. And, in the case of film and video game companies, who were major advertisers selling time sensitive products, the waiting time for readers to see their ad defeats their purpose.

We’ve been able to partially address that problem by going to back cover ads, but they cost substantially more, taking us back to the first problem.

For a period in the 1970s, a standard 36-page comic had only 17 pages of comics, a letters page, and a promo page (Bullpen Bulletins or somesuch) and the front cover, for 20 pages of editorial.
The remaining interior (13) pages, plus back cover and both inside covers, were ads, for a total of 16 ad pages.
Also, Marvel had an unusual policy for almost a year, requiring one page of original art be drawn sideways, so it could be used as TWO pages in the printed comic! (And Marvel got TWO pages of art for the price of one!)

In the ’80s, editorial page count varied from 20 to 24 pages (including front cover and features).

Gold Key carried very few ads…period.
Comic stories ran as much as 31 pages (The 32nd had to be text to qualify for 2nd Class postage status, vital in those pre-Direct Market days)
Often, the inside covers were 1-page comic features and back covers were front cover art without logos or other lettering, just a “(name of book) pin-up” caption.

(Archie and DC advertising team-up.)

Archie Comics seem to carry lots of house ads as well. But then so did Harvey Comics back in the day. Gold Key was the opposite… very few house ads.

Big Boy comics (free with purchase) did this frequently, and Gladstone tried it back in the 1990s.

Since only one paper stock is required, it reduces costs.

However, if the paper is cheap, then the customer feels cheated. Supposedly, DC has been doing this on the down-low for a few months, but no one noticed as the interior paper is glossy and white.

The New Yorker:
Cartoon Issue (the only one on hand)
October 31, 2011 $5.99
108 pages plus five covers (there’s a half-page flap on the front cover with text, the other side is advertising)

Advertising: 23 2/3 pages (The New Yorker runs vertical strips of ads along the outer edges of the magazine)

In-house advertising: 3 pages (mostly 1/3 strips of ads)

Cover: 1.5 cover, 3.5 advertising

Totals:
113 pages
27 1/6 advertising
3 house ads
82 5/6 content

So there is roughly an 8:3 ratio of content to advertising.

73% is content.

In comics, it’s about 66%.

How do comics from the 80s compare? I remember Marvel Mart…

Supposedly, Elle and Vogue could be given away for free, supported completely by advertising revenue. Of course, then it would have no perceived value, and no one would read it.

Hmm… what if all of the house ads were pushed to the back, and DC decided to advertise a preview instead of individual products?

As for custom publishing, DC recently did run a promotion with the Justice League teaming-up with celebrity sports figures, with an 8-page (?) comics insert.

Q: Why doesn’t advertising successfully offset the price of the books?

A: First there is no advertising left to speak of to offset costs. Advertising is added profit and is not build into the budget.

Q: Isn’t comics a pretty good target audience for games, movies, etc?

A: its a visiting audience, not a dedicated one

Q: Really?

Most people I know that read books are decades old fans

Are audiences not considered stable?

A: The current comic audience is massively stable but in trying to attract a new audince there is fear of alienating the existing one.

It’s interesting that wasn’t a concern when he launched the New 52.

At some point I may post the entire transcript of our conversation.

Which, makes me want to dive off into tangent land and talk about how they really should not be making these individual pamphlets all and should really be selling 1 to 3 big magazines a month. Oprah sells about 2 million copies a month but that is mostly the power of the Oprah brand. I’d argue, if you added Spider-Man, Captain America, X-Men, Hulk etc. (and maybe throw in some Disney) that’s a pretty powerful brand. I’d bet you’d make enough in ad sales to lower the price point and not even care much about sales from the books themselves. Which, is how the periodical business is supposed to work.

Surely if they can do ads to fund a 30 minute TV show, DC or Marvel could find someone to run a quick ad for a comic. Which might help bring price down?